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Favourite bad guy/girl?

Leanan

No, this is not the same as 'most unlovable elf'... I think. For one thing, humans and trolls are included.

I won't make a poll because the definition of bad is hazy at best in EQ. Most often, 'mad' would be a better description - how else would there be the possibility of Leetah healing Winnowill, for example? Aroree and Voll, not to mention Rayek, were kidnappers, but we don't see them as bad.(do we?) Chot started out as a greedy monster, but evolved into one of the good guys. And what of Kahvi? (And Bearclaw the alcoholic?)

So, if you don't think someone's a bad one, don't name them as your favourite in this topic - the question is not who you love but who it is most exiting to read about, who chills your spine or makes your heart burn in anger, who makes you laugh and cry for the mindless madness of their deeds.

Me, until yesterday I would have said Winnowill. Then I read 'Dream's End' and 'Phoenix'... spoiler in very small print: Ohh, Door, I'm in love. I hate his deeds and love his looks - glider style combined with the ghastly skull motif, his young-old face and curly hair... poor Dodia, I understand. and the horrible things he does with his rock-shaper hands - Ekuar would never have the imagination, nor gentle Ahdri... I don't know what happens after Phoenix, don't anyone dare give me spoilers...

lostshard

for me it will always be winnowill.....no one's gonna de-throne her ...ever.... especially in the beginning of the quest... she had so many different layers...... and still has....only those are sometimes a bit... well that

Magela_earth

I second that stefan.

LordDarkhan

I third what Stefan said :D

Fourleafclover

I fourth that. Kahvi's awfully bad too but not in the same way. And they're both delightful characters... all the more delightful for their bad-ness! :)

PCoquelin

fifth, then

krwordgazer

Yes, no matter who else comes along, it's Winnie that always makes my blood run cold.

But Grohmul Djun's quite a piece of work, too!

nomad-human

Rayek wins this one for me. No one infuriates me more, chills me more, and plain old makes me wonder what power hungry scheme he would come up with next than Rayek.

Now he's calmed down considerably. But in his bad guy days, not even Winnie could compare in my eyes. Winnie was an all out, in your face baddie. Rayek sneaked up on you from behind...like any good, complicated bad guy should.

scarlettdoll

good point Nomad! I don't have a favorite bad guy but it's interesting to see why ya'll like the ones ya'll pick.

woebringer

the one the only Thoth-Amon :twisted: as evil wizards go none are more vile more cool 8) :twisted:

christopher lee, every one knows that he is up to no good :roll: Grin

winnowill, she's a very naughty girl :twisted: :P Wink Surprised

two-edge, he makes cool gadgets and traps :roll:

and ofcorse myself the WOEBRINGER!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
i can and have pissed every body i know, (sometimes on and sometimes off) Grin :twisted: Grin :twisted: :P

gee don't i got an ego problem Grin

lunakat

How did I know you were gonna say that? Wink

Welcome back Woe!

Yeah- put him on my list too. Him and Two Edge.

Oh yes- and Young Shaman. An obsessed madman- yet strangely compelling.

Blackbird

Bearclaw for me, but I like him. Bad guy I don't like, would be Rayek I guess..

Girl..hmm, Winnie is the queen of evil :twisted:

Zebula77

Ok, so I'll uhh, seventh or is it eight what Stefan said, hehe.

Winnie is definitely the best bad girl hehe. And I like bad girls. :twisted:

krwordgazer

Quote:
Blackbird

Bearclaw for me, but I like him.
:



My feelings about Bearclaw are strange and ambivalent. He really pushed my buttons in Wolfrider-- I almost hated him. And yet he redeemed himself rather well in the end. And it was completely in character for him to do so. His badness was never deliberate badness like Winnowill's. It was more just thoughtlessness, and living too much in the Now of wolf thought, to the point where he ignored the consequences of his actions. Once he faced those consequences, I actually rather liked him.

And there's that mischievous element that makes him intriguing.

Though I still would never want to meet him in a dark forest! **shivers**

Zebula77

I love Bearclaw! I've never thought of him as a 'bad guy' per sé. Just very stuck-up and stubborn. He's probably one of my top five favourite elves, come to think of it. Wink

scarlettdoll

yeah, i don't see Bearclaw as a 'bad' guy. Bearclaw is definately one of my all time favorite characters.

My fav bad guy is Woebringer. Grin (and for the record, you actually haven't pissed me off...yet)

Fourleafclover

Yah, Bearclaw isn't all bad... just prone to bouts of bad decision making and a little self-motivated.... but we all have our flaws.

PCoquelin

"snoopingest elf that ever lived"

Nowth

Pre-KOTBW: Winnie. I would've loved to talk to her endlessly. I would've done a better job than Leetah, too. Except she'd never even consider considering me an equal. Stupid Winnie.

Post-KOTBW: Winnie stopped being interesting after Tyldak exiled her to that island. Rayek now interesting thanks to Rogue's Curse (or was it "Quest"?), but he's not a "bad guy" there. Whole idea of him wandering the world for centuries, like it. Not read the end. Didn't like the art, sadly.

KOTBW: I was disappointed with KOTBW and still am. *pouts*

Bearclaw's basically a human IMHO. We all know somebody like that and think they've got a sufficiently redeemable heart of gold. Maybe they do, what do I know. I have a hard time thinking of anyone as "evil". Always feel bad for them, how awfully, soul-rendingly guilty they must feel. But maybe they don't. Better to remove them from your life to protect yourself, I suppose. I'm not really talking about Bearclaw anymore, am I. I don't think of him as a bad guy, more like a ...stupid guy.

Kahvi always kinda interesting, but can't really consider her all bad. More like a law unto herself. Also a bit brainless, but voluntarily so. Doesn't fit into her chosen lifestyle to think too much, but I suspect she's actually quite intelligent. Wouldn't be fun to talk to though, is too ...rock-brained. Only have two "Kahvi" issues though. Woo, I'll... hm. Where does one buy comics in this town? *rambilates*

Aldar

Winnie, Winnie, Winnie, forever Winnie!

lunakat

Quote:
Nowth


Bearclaw's basically a human IMHO. We all know somebody like that and think they've got a sufficiently redeemable heart of gold. Maybe they do, what do I know. I have a hard time thinking of anyone as "evil". Always feel bad for them, how awfully, soul-rendingly guilty they must feel. But maybe they don't. Better to remove them from your life to protect yourself, I suppose. I'm not really talking about Bearclaw anymore, am I. I don't think of him as a bad guy, more like a ...stupid guy.



Well- I think all of the elves are basically "human" in that they reflect aspects of people whom we may or may not know.

Bearclaw isn't really an "evil" guy- he just has a tragic flaw. I think that is true of most elfquest characters- and most people in life.

And I know there is a lot of discussion on this forum about the differences between the elves and us human beings- but I find their personalities often reflect very human charactoristics.

After all, who hasn't known a strong, loyal girl like Nightfall?
An idealistic type, like Cutter?
A fun-loving guy with a string of girlfriends, like Skywise?
The strong, silent type?
Someone proud and unwilling to bend?

And so on... Wink

Nowth

I guess that I was thinking of Bearclaw's anger and his outbursts and his drinking and gambling and running-away-to-his-troll-buddies and fed-up-with-the-nagging-lifemate-ness as a pretty straight mapping of a certain kind of human behaviour onto an EQ elf "template". So to speak.

Other elves get angry and avoid thinking or dealing with problems as well - but my impression of Bearclaw was that he sorta started crossing out items on a to-do list ;) ...other characters' "problematic behaviour" seems more wrapped in the terms of EQ's fantasy world than his. Know what I mean?

None of the elves or trolls are truly aliens, you're right. Hence our identification with them and our favourites. (I found the Neverending not at all uninteresting, though)

krwordgazer

I agree, Lunakat-- and Nowth. The elves do encapsulate certain types or characteristics of human beings, while somehow still being fully realized characters in their own right. And yet, in some way that's hard to describe, the human characteristics of these elves seem to be distilled or purified-- they have, in general, only one flaw or set of (related) flaws. They are not a mass of conflicting virtues and vices, as we are. While still seeming to be complete and three-dimensional characters, they are simpler beings than humans. Perhaps this is the nature of fantasy; perhaps it is the nature of fictional characters in general. But I think that because they are elves, we can actually see ourselves more clearly in them than if they were human beings, with all of our complex motivations and self-contradictions.

Am I making any sense?

scarlettdoll

Quote:
lunakat


After all, who hasn't known a strong, loyal girl like Nightfall?
An idealistic type, like Cutter?
A fun-loving guy with a string of girlfriends, like Skywise?
The strong, silent type?
Someone proud and unwilling to bend?

And so on... Wink


Wish I could find me an idealistic, charismatic, leading hot guy like Cutter! Wink

ReyesLord

Fav bad guy has to be Door. I've always had a thing for the insane villain. :D

ZaritharSavageclaw

He's not a "bad guy" I know... but I always thought Picknose was great. Winnowill gets high marks too.

Leanan

Reyes - I'm sooo glad someone understands my Door obsession! I thought I was the only one!

Kathleen

Guttlekraw. He makes me shake!

twinklebug

Good ol' Picky. Two-Edge is really interesting, too. And Kahvi.

Leanan

Kahvi isn't bad! Not my lovely Kahvi... Bearclaw is worse!

Apogee

While I don't think he's so "bad", more "misunderstood", Two Edge is my favorite of the 'villainous' types. He's a superb crazy mad scientist. I love mad scientists...

The Djun... there's a true bad guy. He *believes* that he's doing his people good, when he subjugates them to his whim. His horrid son, too... *shudder*.

And let's not forget Madcoil!

Leanan

Actually I think Angrif Djun was quite nice, he just didn't know the truth about elves... (stupid leanan fooled by a handsome face)

I didn't say Bearclaw was bad - just worse than Kahvi.

Kathleen

Spilers for Wild Hunt














Angrif was a jerk, and he treated his sister like crap.
He was lucky to have her, and he just threw her away, so I'd say he qualifes as a bad guy, handsome face or not.

Leanan

Ahh so that explains it. I haven't read wild hunt!

Kathleen

Sorry! Forgot!

Leanan

lol... I can't expect people to remember what I have or haven't read - and I'm not afraid of spoilers...

Kathleen

It's just sort of a general thing, though, not to expect people to have read past KOBTW. :oops:

Trollbabe

If Picknose is a bad guy, he's my favorite. But I like Rayek as a villain. It's easy to empathize with him. He exhibits the same faults most of us are prone to.