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Am I alone in being frosted off?

micinjensue

Hey there, I'm fairly new to this board, been around the old scroll for a while though and I probably expressed my discontent with how some of the stories and characters were tied in to other themes and plots with what I say are damn cheap tactics.

First let's look at the whole Kahvi question. Don't get me wrong I like Kahvi and I even liked the Kahvi story that came out some time back...but I hate how they tied her to the Wolfriders as not only the oldest living Wolfrider but also Two Spear's daughter. Somehow that just seems like a cheap method to link the Go Backs with the Wolfriders. I mean couldn't the Go Backs have been started by their own branch of Elves? The Wolfriders weren't the only elves that succeeded, the Gliders made it (until the Wolfriders found them) and so did the Sun Folk and neither of those groups had genetic ties to the Wolfriders.

Next we have Tier suddenly seeming like he could be Kahvi's abandoned kid...gah...again why why why do they have to pull these kind of cheap tricks?

And we have golden haired/golden eyed Nightfall being the daughter of brown haired/brown eyed Brownberry and Black haired/? eyed Longbranch...(I know about genetics and recessive genes - my family is blond and green eyed while i'm brown/brown) :roll: , but come on! Grrr...really I'm just bitching...cause I wanted her parents to be Briar and Amber from the anthologies!

Other problem I have is with Ahdri (sp?) dying. The girl (girl? ok so she was like 10000 yrs old) shouldn't have died. She never passed on her genetic material, never passed on her rockshaping ability...stupid stupid stupid bad Barry for killing her off Evil Grin !

I can probably think about other points to crab about, but I might as well see if anyone else feels the same or completely disagrees, or can come up with other frosty topics.

(oh! Final point! Unfinished stories! Stories hanging in limbo frost me off too!)


Of course that's just Mi opinion :twisted:

lunakat

I totally agree!

As for casting a vote, I was torn between 'kahvi as two spears daughter' and 'tier as kahvi's son.' my god- the odds are just...

Does EVERYTHING have to connect directly? Is it THAT small a world of two moons?

Criminy!

Zebula77

Umm, nothing really annoys to any mentionable degree, though it certainly would have been cooler if the Go-Backs sprung from different elves altogether, and I do agree that there shouldn't have to be ties and links with EVERY sub-story.

MrsGrizzley

Are you talking about unfinished fanfic stories? 'Cause I got caught away from the computer for a very long time but I have every intention of finishing HalfElven.

Mrs. Grizzley

micinjensue

Nope, story stories. Wavedancers (as much as I hated it) unfinished, Mender's story, unfinished. Rebels and Jink left hanging? Fire-Eye and Chot abandoned in the forever green (hate the story but come on lets tie up the loose ends!)

Mi :twisted:

Arfurido

I HATE those loose ends!!! I want to know what happened to them all... :(

Prism

I don't have a problem with Nightfall being Longbranch and Brownberrie's daughter, but I hated the Kahvi series with a passion, not to mention Ahdri's sudden death. And I don't like them killing off the Gliders, Winnowill being made into the ultimate evil,the total ignoring of minor characters, Kimo getting more character development then Newstar,Windkin losing his wolfblood as well as being overlooked,Suntop not having any wolfblood or the fact that elves can mate with wolves but not humans. There are some serious flaws to Elfquest at times.

Spitfire

Shrug...what put me off the most is about Nightfall being the offspring of Longbranch and Brownberry...I think the writers just tossed down that idea after vaguely hinting at it in the big brown book that carries all the information about the Elfquest characters.

What's more...what happened to all the elves in the former tribes? How long do they live anyway? We never see any of them growing old or dying, do we?

Suzene

Kahvi as a wolfrider. I don't mind her being Two-Spear's kid, but it seemed moronic to have her fall into a plot-device pool when Willowgreen was her mother! Furthermore, if there's been so much wolfblood lost as to make her practically immortal, there shouldn't be enough there to facilitate a wolfbond. Feh, I say! FEH! It takes away the uniqueness of the Go-Backs and adds nothing.

Tier as Kahvi's kid I kind of like, actually, if only because his existance seems to indicate that, at some point, my favorite chieftess was snared by Recognition. I love to think of Kahvi fuming and railing against that. ;)

Nightfall's parents don't bother me either. Elven genetics are just plain weird, especially with all of the close-mating that's gone on.

The unifinished stories I have faith will be completed in time. And if not, there's always fanfic.

Suzene

Windwalker

I agree about Nightfall being the daughter of Brownberry and Longreach. That sounds kind of...unbelievable. I always thought Brownberry looked younger than Nightfall anyway, even when you take Elven ageing into account.
I don't think we knew enough about Ahdri. Unless I'm missing something we have no idea why she became Savah's handmaiden, how she came into the job, a great deal of her personality, etc. I would like to know a little more about her.
The Khavi stuff speaks for itself.

woebringer

i dont know what being "frosted off"means :roll:
but i donot like the unfinished stories, but i suppose it gives the writers "back up material" to work on when they dont have any new ideas.
i also dont like the forever green story line.
and the plot device pool is right out of a D&D game and has no real place in elf quest.

micinjensue

Frosted off is another way of saying angry, PO'd, mad...etc., etc. But I think that you figured it out anyway. LOL Grin

Mi :twisted:

Mirr

Quote:
woebringer

i dont know what being "frosted off"means :roll:
but i donot like the unfinished stories, but i suppose it gives the writers "back up material" to work on when they dont have any new ideas.
i also dont like the forever green story line.
and the plot device pool is right out of a D&D game and has no real place in elf quest.




Suppose it can be a bit misleading, since with the cold ish association one usually thinks something else as being angry, red, fiery etc.. I usually prefer the term "miffed" :D

wishiwaswillow

Quote:
micinjensue


First let's look at the whole Kahvi question. Don't get me wrong I like Kahvi and I even liked the Kahvi story that came out some time back...but I hate how they tied her to the Wolfriders as not only the oldest living Wolfrider but also Two Spear's daughter. Somehow that just seems like a cheap method to link the Go Backs with the Wolfriders. I mean couldn't the Go Backs have been started by their own branch of Elves? The Wolfriders weren't the only elves that succeeded, the Gliders made it (until the Wolfriders found them) and so did the Sun Folk and neither of those groups had genetic ties to the Wolfriders.


I have no problem with the Go-Backs being an offshoot of the Wolfriders. There are some cultural and physical similarities between the two tribes, and all of the tribes are descended from the same small group, which must have grown and splintered into smaller groups at some point. However, I agree that the idea of Kahvi being Two-Spear's daughter and the explanation of how that happened are really really stupid.

Arfurido

I'm totally in on the Go-Backs used to be wolfriders-thing, as Timmain turned out to be their rescuer by being a wolf and it had an immense impact on the elves and the way things would be and blah blah, but I think they should have "split" in an earlier stage. Two-Spear was the fourth chief, and they should have left as a peaceful group after the second or third chief. But I guess, you know, drama sells Wink

Also, to have our famous Kahvi be the blood of five chiefs, not just a triple-grand-grand-daughter, and to not remember anything of it, well... okay, but a bit over the top for my taste. To put in other words, too much drama, not just a natural, but still shocking coincidence as EQ is about...

MaxvonBek

Although it hasn't been specifically stated anywhere, I get the feeling that the Go-Backs are a fusion of Two-Spear's split tribe, and a tribe of rock-shapers (Ekuar's original tribe). The only thing that seems to support this idea is Ekuar's tale in Love & Loss, as he says that when he and Rayek reached the Frozen Mountains, he found the remnants of his tribe (Go-Backs) much diminished in power. What does everyone else make of that?

Arfurido

I think that's got to be it! But how old was Ekuar when the three (Mekda, Osek and Ekuar) left their tribe? I can't remember, but it was quite early, right, because Ekuar is son of one of the firstcomers, isn't he?

Where is "love and loss" from btw? Rogue's Curse?

Arthis

There are 3 "love and loss" tales, told by Winnowill, Ekuar and Rayek. Each one tells the two other his/her story just after the "Lost shard" episode, so the "Love and Loss" belong to Rogue's Curse cycle, but is has been published only once, in the three last EQ2 #28 - #29 and #30, and never reprinted in Reader's Collection form.

Arfurido

Okay. I never bought all of the EQ2's, I stopped right after Dreamtime. Just amazing to see how my lack of money in my teens now affects my life as an adult. Evil Grin

If I knew then what I know now I would own EVERYTHING. Like all the parts of New Blood. I know Barry Blair's art got sloppy after a few issues, but it's nevertheless better to own that story in COLOUR rather than the sad black and white in the Reader's Collection. Same thing about Blood of ten chiefs. Aaargh! :(

PCoquelin

Hmmm. We don't know much about Ekuar's former tribe.
Rockshapers, heh ?
And a strange situation too : Three young rock-shapers wandering alone !
There may be something to dig from Ekuar's memories, I bet.
Other lost children to find.

Arfurido

In #18, Ekuar says that the humans guarded the palace at first, killing most of the elves that tried to get into it. When the "Ice age" came and the forest was replaced with the frosty mountains, all elves, animals and humans fled, but someof them stayed behind, and Ekuar says he, Osek and Mekda did so. They were captured by the trolls. Osek escaped into the desert and died there, leaving behind his bones for Leetah, Darth and the rest to find. Ekuar was resqued by Rayek, and Mekda stayed prisoder with the trolls until she froze to death after helping the trolls break in to the Go-Back's cave where Redlance and the wolves where guarding the children during the war for the palace.

It doesn't say anywhere that there were more elves than the three of them that stayed behind, but all the "other elves" went to search for warmer places. Kahv's Go-Backs came from the wolfriders, so Teir's group of people and Ekuars group must have been with either some of these elves that went to search for warmer places, or from Kahvi's eary group of elves... I think :roll: Haven't finished Kahvi yet, so I really don't know...

Ekuar and his two friends might have been with the first wolfriders too, but wouldn't we have seen them in "Blood of ten chiefs" if so?

The real question is how many groups of elves there originally was right after the events in "how shall I keep from singing"... Didn't Aerth and that blonde high one go on their own search? I'm sure Timmain's group spent a lot of time breeding in those years, and there could have been a LOT of people wandering off during those years... it's a puzzle :)

marina

Hey all, I'm pretty much okay with the family ties, there were after all only so few who survived the crash and so far we only have two tribes which are directly linked to each other out of the five we know so I think this is reasonable.

And I don't mind that Elves could mate with wolves and not humans. When Timmain arrived, mating with humans was entirely out of the questions, even if she had changed shape to look more like them, it wouldn't have worked. And after that, NO elf has mated with a wolf again so by now I don't think they can. The wolfriders wolf blood must be running pretty thin but they still connect to the wolves.
Kahvi connecting to a wolf isn't that weird, the Go Backs had already learned how to connect with animals, it's more a matter of mentality then blood I think.

What DID disturb me is not Nightfall's parentage but her time of birth. In the original quest Nightfall muses that having Ember around is just like seeing Cutter as a cub again.......How could she know???????
Also, Redlance got his name when Cutter was 12, which means Nightfall was already his lovemate when she was 10 :roll: Of course the name changing story had been written BEFORE the wolfrider story, back in the early beginnings. Was Nightfall's birth timing a mistake or did they really think we wouldn't notice??????

Unfinished story lines are a drag. But at least it gives me some time to hunt for older EQ issues and complete my collection...I too suffered lack of money as a teen and as a student I'm not doing that much better Wink

jak

Unfinished stories.

Now that they have whole DC Comics behind them, i'd definately hope that so called old wavedancer series were brought back to daylight. WaRP produced it with Black Mermaid and they had have all the legal fights and decisions not to publish it anymore, BEFORE i even find out that wavedancers exist in the World of Two Moons!

Six issues would make a logical manga volume, right? I have read almost all other comics but not them. And i guess i'm not the only one. I think especially old readers would rather buy something they haven't read as many times as the 'Grand Quest'.

Also the storyline needs badly some clearance. Richard have said somewhere that first 6 issues are dream of Broken One who appears in New Wavedancers. But could it be that the characters of the Old series are the ancestors of present Wavedancers? The original high or their first-born who fled to the sea? Is Broken One the only link between Old and New? And the storyline of the New Wavedancers was totally drop out in the middle. If they follow series in chronological order (as it seems), it'll take ages to get to that point where Windkin meets Wavecatcher... And I don't want to wait that long!!

- J -

http://www.blackmermaid.com/dancers.html

Lumikuu

'Unfinished storie' is my (poisoned) cup of tea this time. But hten again, I have a lot more loose ends hanging than many 'cause it is so **** difficult to get ElfQuest from anywhere here in Finland *siiigh*

What's it with Nightfall's parents? I haven't given it much thought but I don't understand why Brownberry couldn't be her mother.

micinjensue

Genetics, genetics, genetics make it unlikely that both Brownberry and Longbranch (Longreach) are Nightfall's parents. Both have dark hair (Longbranch has black) and (I think) dark eyes (i'm not sure about the color of Longbranch's eyes). And yet Nightfall has golden eyes and golden brown hair (when she's colored properly!) It's the genetics of the whole thing that just bug me!

I myself am a genetic misfit and if it wasn't for my grandmothers I'd wonder about my parentage Grin - my parents and siblings are all blonds with green/hazel eyes and I ended up with brown hair and brown eyes Evil Grin - but I have my grandmothers' colorings to reference my coloring with so I can verify why my coloring is thus Grin Wink . Maybe Nightfall's grandparents were both blonds with light colored eyes...but really, I just hate that idea... it is obvious that her parentage was an after thought and they (as in the Pini's) sought around looking for a couple that could fit the bill and Longbranch/reach and Brownberry seemed to fit the that bill. Better for them to not name her parents or to name unknowns or to stick to the anthology version which was Briar and Amber (Amber! makes me think of amber hair and eyes...good possiblity of a golden eyed and golden-brown haired daughter there!).

Here's my version of Amber:


Besides which had they put any real thought into her parents rather than throwing the idea out to be picked up as cannon than Nightfall too would have been devastated by what happened at the madcoil attack; not that I'm saying it wasn't shocking enough...but the loss of ones parents or siblings Unhappy is like losing a limb...hurts like hell and can never be returned! After thought, pure and simple. And I hate it... reason enough! Evil Grin :x Evil Grin :x Evil Grin

That's Mi :twisted: opinion

CreepyKitty

Nearly everything gets me frosted eccept Nightfall's parents. I don't like Kahvi being a wolfrider and I don't like the implied idea that she is Teir's mother nor do I like the idea that she is Two-Spear's daughter. Phew! There seems to be quite a bit that I don't like right now, but I'm tired and grumpy.

Lumikuu: Getting EQ from Finland probably depends a lot on where you live. Here in Helsinki you can get it from quite many stores. Where do you live? I might know a way for you to get your hands on EQ at least through the web from a Finnish site.

Lumikuu

Ember has red hair, Suntop golden blond, Cutter blond, Leetah brown (okay, depends on the coloring, she has had red too sometimes). Bearclaw had brown and Joyleaf was like Suntop. Or Dart/Strongbow/Moonshade. There doesn't seem to be any logic in Abode. Maybe elves' genes just don't give a damn.

Creepy Kitty: I live near Tampere, where the high and mighty Kukunor used to be. Now I don't know any place else (not counting libraries, who have some two, three month-long reservationlists (tai miten niitä sitten ikinä kutsutaankaan englanniksi:) . I'm boycotting Kukunor 2, it can never replace the original Kukunor. Anyway, GN's tend to pay a merry hell here in Finland, but if you know a place where the prices are fairer, then you'll be my saving angel!

CreepyKitty

Lumikuu: Here are a couple of links to Finnish fimrs that sell EQ. I think that at least Fantasiapelit has a uhm...postimyynti thingie. Dunno the word in English says the English major :)

Fantasiapelit:
http://www.fantasiapelit.com/index.php?

Good Fellows:
http://www.goodfellows.fi/webpages/newones/albums.htmmain=ai&etsittava=elfquest&mista=*&offset=0&yhteen=eri&alue=

If the links don't work just google either of the company names.

CreepyKitty

Ok looks like the Good Fellows link did not do the straight link to EQ that I was aiming for but I'll link the main page again here: http://www.goodfellows.fi/

God I do suck with computers:)

wishiwaswillow

micinjensue, I agree that Nightfall's parentage was probably an afterthought, but I really don't understand your issue with the genetics. You've said repeatedly that you know about recessive genes, but you still insist that they are impossible. That's a little like saying "Birds can't fly! I understand about wings, but come on! "
[quote:0fe9e70118]Ember has red hair, Suntop golden blond, Cutter blond, Leetah brown (okay, depends on the coloring, she has had red too sometimes). Bearclaw had brown and Joyleaf was like Suntop. Or Dart/Strongbow/Moonshade. There doesn't seem to be any logic in Abode. Maybe elves' genes just don't give a damn.
[/quote:0fe9e70118]
In humans, hair color is determined by mulitple genes and influenced by environmental factors as well. As a result, it isn't unusual to see children with hair colors similar to their parents and grandparents but not exactly like any one relative. Elves seem to work pretty much the same way. Leetah's hair is more auburn than brown and leans toward red. In combination with Cutter's light-haired genes, it isn't surprising that Ember's hair is a lighter shade of red. Similarly, Dart's hair color is (usually) a lighter version of his father's. Perhaps Moonshade has a light-haired ancestor, or perhaps Dart's hair has been bleached by the sun.

micinjensue

Wishiwaswillow I don't have a good reason....:oops: Yeah...I know...being a genetic throwback myself I know...I know. But I just hate it. As I said at the bottom of my last post all my reasons really don't matter...I just hate it (Nightfall being Longbranch/reach's and Brownberry's daughter)...and that's reason enough. Ok actually it isn't reason enough. My other points do apply, about it being so much of a lousy after thought, etc, etc...but simply and plainly...I just hate it. Evil Grin

Nothing logical about it. I just hate it. :twisted: Grin :twisted: Grin :twisted: Grin :twisted: Grin Grin :twisted: Grin Grin :twisted: Grin :twisted:

Mi :twisted: is seriously futzed up Grin Grin Grin Grin

wishiwaswillow

I can understand that. I was also a little anoyed when I first saw that they were making Brownberry and Longbranch Nightfall's parents, mainly because that means Nightfall lost both her parents as recently and as suddenly as Cutter did, and yet she's never ever felt the need to mention either of them. And I have to admit that, even going beyond hair and eye color, she doesn't look all that much like either of them. Again, it's genetically possible, but it does look like an afterthought.

Kimmers4Ever

For me everything else is moot.. It's the unfinished stories that bother me. :) We got the recognition Special and that was it.. Now we are going back to Cutter's tribe... But I guess that's how the soaps are.. LOL! And I do call EQ my soaps. Cause I'm addicted to it in the worst way. I've been going through withdrawls all this time... BUt then, cash has been VERY short.

Heathcliff

HEy all, I wanted to know how you think these "irritations" come into the Elfquest universe? Is it the same problem that develops in so many other projects ie. the inclusion of too many varied ideas baffles what was originally direct, and vital about the idea, and makes it, well...confused. What I mean is, do you think that these "frostings" are because some of the stories are not written by Wendy and Richard? :(
ps. I am not a stick in the mud EQ purist by any stretch, just developing a thread here.... Wink

micinjensue

Quote:
Heathcliff

HEy all, I wanted to know how you think these "irritations" come into the Elfquest universe? Is it the same problem that develops in so many other projects ie. the inclusion of too many varied ideas baffles what was originally direct, and vital about the idea, and makes it, well...confused. What I mean is, do you think that these "frostings" are because some of the stories are not written by Wendy and Richard? :(
ps. I am not a stick in the mud EQ purist by any stretch, just developing a thread here.... Wink



No...and yes. Damn I can't make up my mind. Hmmm, okay this was originally my thread and it was about being frosted off about an odd number of things, definitly one of them was unfinished stories. But Heathcliff has definitly raised a good point, could we in general be frosted off because Wendy and Richard didnt write the stories?

Who wrote which stories? What are some favorite story arcs (least favorite arc)? Did we miss Wendy and Richard writing as much as we did Wendy drawing? Is it a matter of continuity and how does one seemingly unrelated story arc relate to another? :roll: I have no answers, plenty of speculation but I'm to tired to try tonight. Maybe others will be able to figure out where I'm going with this thread and carry it. Others..?

LordDarkhan

I think its definately a mixture of both.

As stated i am of course aggrivated at stories being not finished.

but i am APE CRAZY at the way a lot of the other stories were drawn and handled. I could cope a lot better with unfinished stories by wendy and richard than seeing finished stories by horrible artists, and half written plots.

I know most people dont care for the forevergreen series. But i think if wendy and richard delth with it and stuck to the general plot that the story went from it could have been a magnificient series.

I honestly havent read any of embers stories, because the art was so horrible, i couldnt tell elf from elf, so I really cant comment on those.

But i do think a lot of my frustration is that the stories were mishandled in my opinion by artists writers etc etc etc that could not do them justice.

Heathcliff

Yeah, LordDarkhin is correct is correct in this regard also. I can't think of any aspect of a Pini plot that I find weak, so I think that they either work out their plots with more attention, or they are better writers. I haven't read really any non Pini EQ, so I am not the best judge, but I tell you, when the door was opened, and new artists/writers joined, I lost interest.

krwordgazer

Well, I have read everything but the Jink series, except for comics not put into the Reader's Collections which I haven't been able to find. Like Fire-Eye, etc.

The stuff done completely by the Pinis is definitely the best. As for the writing-- I liked the New Wavedancers and Rebels series, which Richard Pini had a hand in the writing. The Shards series is actually pretty good. It wasn't drawn by Wendy but most of the story was hers. And it shows. The art in it isn't bad either. The Ember series wasn't written or drawn by either of them, and it shows. But the part of the Ember series with Lehrigen in it, even though the drawing wasn't what I would have liked, the story had the Pini touch to it. And that story does have a blurb giving Wendy credit for "helping the story find its heart."

Forevergreen-- I agree with Darkhan. It could have been good, but it wasn't. The plot had gaping holes, and the art-- well, they didn't even look like Elfquest elves. Sometimes you could only tell who a character was by their characteristic hairstyle or clothing. And as for muscle definition, it simply was non-existent. Once Door took his mask off, he looked like a 13-year-old girl! Certainly not the scary madman he was supposed to be-- it was very incongruous, feeling I was supposed to feel frightened of this pretty little elf. Similar complaint for most of the other male characters, too.

The BoTC series wasn't too bad-- writing or drawing. The Kahvi series-- well, it could have been better. Much better. What turned Kahvi from the shrewd, bold chieftess to an irresponsible, restless, selfish brat?

Rogue's Curse had too much action, not enough character development. It read like a superhero comic. But I liked it anyway. Especially the story written and drawn by Wendy in that book: it was intense, compelling, beautiful, profound-- everything I've come to expect from her.

So I guess if I'm frosted at anything, it's Forevergreen and Kahvi. It seems to me, given the themes of the series, that the Pinis would want to allow other artists/writers their freedom. They believe in that. But I think they gave them too much freedom.

There's my input.

Heathcliff

Hey Micinjensue (I hope I got that correct, hard to remember! Wink )


I saw in one forum that you posted a drawing in the body of your text. How did you do that? I would like to share some of my stuff with you all
Cheers!

micinjensue

Quote:
Heathcliff

Hey Micinjensue (I hope I got that correct, hard to remember! Wink )


I saw in one forum that you posted a drawing in the body of your text. How did you do that? I would like to share some of my stuff with you all
Cheers!



Well if you have webspace that allows you to direct link images than it's a matter of just pasting the url and clicking the Img button up under the subject line (make sure you have the url text completely highlighted before clicking the IMG button. Or conversely if you can't direct link your image you can link it to your webspace and use the URL button (not as good a method but better if your picture is huge...trust me)

The other option which most people use (including myself) is http://photos.mossgreen.net/html/upload/ upload your images, copy the links over and they will display on the page. It takes a bit of futzing around sometimes to get it right but don't worry it will work, don't be afraid to edit your posts either it's really easy to do.

BTW Micinjensue is a mouthful so it is okay to call me MI for short :D

Arthis

About the unfinished stories…

I belong to the EQUEST-L MAILING LIST, and one of us (Yngvar) wrote to Bob Greenberger (from DC comics) about the unfinished stories. As I'm not sure many of you subscribed to the list, this is Bob Greenberger's answer:

Quote:
Bob Greenberger

Right now our plan is to slowly grow the ElfQuest Library here at DC.
This year we have the six Grand Quest volumes plus the second volume
in the Archives series. In July, The Searcher and the Sword will
come out as the first new work in years.

Wendy, Richard and I are just now talking about 2005. One thing we
have discussed was what to do about Recognition and Mender's Tale.
They certainly haven't been forgotten but we want to be careful about
stories that Wendy is not directly involved in since part of the re-
introduction of the material was to present Wendy and Richard's
vision to a new audience. Certainly the people who started these
projects will be invited back to complete them which is just another
element in the equation.

So I guess the bottom line for right now is patience.


Then, after a few debate about the meaning of this answer, and the "quantity of patience" needed, Richard Pini sent this email to the list, about the "schedule":

Quote:
Richard Pini

DC wants a minimum of 6 compact editions (manga) plus one archive per year. Wendy wants a minimum of 6 months to devote exclusively to any new project such as "Searcher and the Sword" - each manga takes about 6 weeks and each archive takes at least two months. Now, if one does the math...




Well… maybe the youngest among us (daidai) will be still alive when the unfinished stories will be finished!


PS: if I wasn't supposed to post the email from the mailing list, I apologize for the offence, and Tim can delete this post; but I thought it was interesting for everyone here to know.

Arfurido

Arthis, thank you!! It meant a lot to me to know that Mender's Tale and Recognition hasn't been "killed off" yet!!

If anyone don't mind, this new information is going straight to Menderland Wink :D :mrgreen:

(And LOL to the comment on daidai (being the youngest)... I hope I'll live to see the New ElfQuest too :mrgreen:)

Mirr

Quote:
Arthis


Well”¦ maybe the youngest among us (daidai) will be still alive when the unfinished stories will be finished!



hehe, I am sensing an upcoming parallel to the Wheel of Times books and their durance, that at least at some point people thought it'd never end.. but now, maybe it has :D

woebringer

gun permits and the 7 day waiting peroid there are deer just waiting to end up on my grill and i half to wait, yes i know it aint deer season yet.

snarkypants

Newbie poster here. When/where was it revealed that Tier is Kahvi's son?

And yeah, it grated my cheese that Kahvi was a wolfrider. It just seemed so incestuous.

goldenelfchild

If you read the later issues of "Huntress" I believe it is, it explains that he might possibly be related to Khavi, but in fact related to the Go-Backs somehow. Wink

snarkypants

Thanks!

goldenelfchild

No problem, I try to help when I can. Wink

Arthis

The forshadow of Kahvi been Teir's Mother comes in the 2001 (2001? Surprised such a long time ago!!!) Summer Spécial Recognition.

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The human hunter Lerighen (sp?) tells the Wild Hunt he killed Kahvi. He kept her braid as a "trophy". The smell of the braid is Kahvi's and when Teir smells it, memories of Kahvi come back to him. He sees (as an infant) Kavhi "abandoning" him.

Brace

Oh no. What happened to Tyldak when Kahvi was killed? Even though I am not a Kahvi fan its sad to hear she died - but Tyldak MUST live! :( If they finished off yet another Glider I will be seriously displeased.

Heathcliff

Highones! So many things are different! I only collected the old Wendy stuff up to the middle of the Hidden Years... hence there is much I don't know. Is Khavi dead!? Be still my beating heart, say it isn't so!

Lumikuu

In my opinion killing Kahvi is so unwise move. There would've been so much for her to achieve, so much things to meddle in...and what about Venka & co trying to find her? Do they just wander futilely somewhere out there or has Ember passed the information on to them?

Suzene

Though the idea of Kahvi dying did hit me like a sucker punch to the gut, I wonder...this wouldn't be the first time she was declared dead, after all. Considering that nothing more substantial than her hair was taken...*shrugs* I'll stop holding out hope when I see the body.

Suzene

scarlettdoll

This is new to me! But I agree with Suzenne. Til they produce a corpse (and not easily mistaken bones neither! :twisted: ) I'll doubt.

Arfurido

They've produced four, dark brown braids coming from a female stag rider that was the toughest fight Lehringens' ever fought Wink

Thorn

I'm willing to bet Kahvi is alive. No Elf dies anymore, not since One-Eye. O.K. and Woodlock, Rainsong, and Wing. But it seems to me that if you inhabit more than two pages you are truly immortal. I personally really miss Bowki.
The whole 10,000 year sleep frosts me. All the Wolfrider's break with the WAY. Ooops now lets come up with a story to make the Sun-Folk sleep too, and I'm sure Kahvi could have easily found another pool of water to sleep in.
But don't gat me wrong for all its faults I love ElfQuest.

marina

Hey people, let's not forget, between the time Venka and co set out to find Kahvi and Lehrigen coming back to Ember's tribe there is a gap of at least 30 years
Who knows what might have happened during that time?
I hope we get to find out but with all the unfinished stories and stuff...ah well we'll wait and see.
I might have to get some kids and grandkids to teach them about EQ so they can keep watching the stories till one day all is told :P That way part of me will know how it all went and how it ended :mrgreen:

Arfurido

marina, not quite sure what you meant about thet 30 years, but Lehrigen tells about his "price" at the beginning of Shadowstalker, which happens when Sust and Pool are still young cubs... so if she'd been killed by Lehrigen, she was already dead at that time :(

marina

Hey Arfurido, when I said that about the 30 years I was thinking of when Ember and her tribe heard from Lehrigen about Kahvi's death, I had totally forgotten about the time when Lehrigen talked to the Djunn :roll:

At the beginning of the Gifa story which is right before the one with Lehrigen, Howling Rock has been home to the Wild Hunt for 12 years, the palace war lasted maybe 2 years, so then it would be 10 years between Venka setting out and Lehrigen telling the Djun about killing Kahvi.....

Well there's less time, but still enough to let Venka find her mother before Lehrigen killed her? I hope they don't go for cheap drama by making Venka find Kahvi just after she died or something like that.

:idea: On the other hand, Two Edge is with Venka and although he's a half troll born outside of recognition, he's still half Winnowill and therefore half healer????? Redlance was late in developing his tree shaping ability, maybe Two Edge will become a healer and heal Kahvi.......
Like others have said, don't believe she's dead till you've seen a corpse!

Suzene

You know, if Kahvi is alive, she's probably been looking for Lehrigen for the past 20 years or so and been majorly pissed off the whole time. ;)

Suzene

Mirr

*grins at Suzene*

Not to mention, she might have a new hairdo!
*gasp* :D

scarlettdoll

There will be spoilers in this post!

you know, actually i'm ok with Kahvi dying. Wendy once said they thought about having Leetah actually save One-Eye but felt for the integrity of the story, they couldn't. It's like that now. True, Skot and Zhantee died in the Shards war and that was tragic but if Kahvi had another life-saving device now, it would seem a bit silly. Besides which, she's really old and she's lived a good life. Wink

Arfurido

Kahvi and Lehrigen, that has to be the fight of the century! I sure hope we get to see more from it!

goldenelfchild

Yeah, if they ever get around to finishing up some of the stories they started...

scarlettdoll

yeah, i didn't understand why Brownberry and Longbranch being Nightfall's parents wasn't good but i just assumed i was missing something! (a common occurance for me! :) )

I didn't much care for the Kahvi/Wolfrider connection but c'est la vie.

krwordgazer

Icetooth, that's what I do-- write new stories focusing on the gaps in the EQ storyline (such as places where the action is mentioned, but happens "offstage," or action occurring within years-long gaps in the original). Usually I try to bring out some theme or imagery that I see in the original works that I want to develop further, while staying as consistent as I can with the canon works. Check them out sometime-- there are two on this forum so far.

goldenelfchild

I didn't like the thought of Brwonberry being Nightfall's mother because to me, she always seemed way to young, more like a sister than a mother (but that's just the way I view things).

The thought of Brownberry and Longbranch being lifemates doesn't bother me, just Brownberry being Nightfall's mother...there just doesn't seem to be enough similarity between them to me to conclude that point. Nightfall may have her shapely figure, but there is nothing else other than that, and the Pini's always made parents/child have something physically similar to one of their parents other than their shape.

MultiMEDEA

I'm not particularly frosted off at any inconsistancy in EQ, I just consider it the nature of the beast in comics. Elfquest is remarkably consistant and on-target compared to something like The X-Men. I can buy Nightfall's parentage, even tho it's obviously an afterthought. Her non-reaction to Madcoil's attack is pretty bizarre and she's never claimed any special kinship to One-Eye or Scouter. Cutter, Dewshine, and Treestump are always "cousin this" and "sister's son that" even tho all of the Wolfriders are probably at least second cousins by now.

In Kahvi's case, it's "show me the body"! If the Pinis really wanted to establish that she's stone-cold dead they easily could have done so. This Lehrigen guy with the braids is kinda like the Huntsman from Snow White bringing back her "heart" in a box to prove the deed was done. Like the proof was more important than the "death". It's too shabby a way to treat such a major character.

Teir as Kavhi's son? *Shrug* He had to come from somewhere.

Quote:
Ice Tooth

Bad art is worse to me than a slightly confusing storyline!


Hear, hear! Unfinished storylines don't bother me as much as completely abandoned stories and neither is worse than inferior art. What really confuses me is that nothing in the current stories seems to be leading at all to the Future Quest/Jink/Rebels time. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. :) ) Why did the elves abandon Abode? Why didn't they try harder to become "a true people of this world" like Savah thought they should? Right now Rayek (of all elves) and Tyleet are the only ones trying to understand the human perspective. You can't really count Shuna because the elves made her part of their world, not vice versa.

I don't think fanfic writers are (as a whole) revisionist fanatics. It's just a way to get in on the fun. True, much of great fantasy wouldn't exist without some talented person sitting down at a drawing table or typewriter or PC and thinking "This is the story I want to tell today." And sometimes it comes to the point that the story becomes too expansive to be carried on the shoulders of that one person. Tho I do scratch my head over fans who say, 'this isn't the story I'm carrying around in my head, therefore, you, the creator are wrong for telling it that way'. What the f**k's up with that? Every time I hear someone railling against the other writers/artists at WARP over whatever, like they hijacked the WARP offices or something and Wendy & Richard didn't have anything to do with it, I want to laugh. It's their company; do you really think a line of art or a word of type went to the printers without their say-so?

Prism

Actually I understand fully that the Pinis had final say so on all projects. What ticks me off more then anything is the fact that they said so themselves that the only outside artists and writers would be the ones who could do the elves and trolls as well as the Pinis themselves. I accepted that and was proud that the comic stayed true in quality because it hadn't switched hands. Or at least I was certain that any new writers/artists would be of top talent.

Boy was I wrong! Many of the artists only knew how to draw cookie-cutter characters, the coloring got very muddy and the art became very convoluted.The different body and facial types, the effort to make every elf,troll,human and preserver unique and different was gone. Only a handful of new artists like Sonny Strait or BMP had the means to make the art seem remotely like Elfquest. Those were the good ones btw, we also had to deal with the likes of Barry Blevins.

And then there was the writing itself. Oh, I could understand giving Kahvi her own storyline and tried to enjoy the Forevergreen arc. But I felt that it was a complete copout to make Kahvi Two-Spear's daughter and it cheapened the Go-Backs origins as well. There had also been no hints about Teir being Kahvi's son, only about having Go-Back heritage. Forevergreen,Shards and Hdden Years along with several other Elfquest titles degenerated into soap-opera angst that was so common in other comicbooks not Elfquest. So I kissed Elfquest goodbye for a long time. Only when I saw that Wendy had returned to writing and drawing did I return. As a consumer I had every right to do so and did so.

Bottom line is, I got into Elfquest because it was top-quality art and storytelling. I beleived that any new artists and writers would would be top-notch as well. Instead half the time, it felt like readers were getting the bottom of the barrel in storytelling and art. The Pinis may have had final sayso, but I think they got distracted and sidetracked a lot. As a result the quality dropped drastically. That is the reason many readers feel that non-Wendy art and writing is fanart/fanfiction.

micinjensue

Prism, maybe you hit the nail on the head...I can't remember having a choice about the art but I felt very much like you did for the longest time. Maybe I forgave Wendy and Richard a little faster because I did eventually warm up to some of the stories and actually was able to find some quality art from some of the Artists that WaRP brought on board... :roll: It was admittedly pretty difficult sometimes though and I did drop some titles completely because I just so completely loathed them, such as Blood of Ten cheif etc...though in the case of BoTC I think I quit it because I hated Delfin Barrel's elves so much and he was the last artist to draw the BoTC series. Anyway...art that sucked and loose storylines were definitly a failing of EQ and though I have said it before I figure I'll go ahead and say it again: Had EQ stayed true to the fans I don't believe that EQ would have felt the same crunch that the comic entire comic industry felt at the same time because EQ only survived because it was supported by its fans... does that make sense? I know that all comics are supported by their fans...but EQ was always an self-published indi comic (or pretty much) and unlike the big mass produced comics it relied extensively upon the support of those that loved it for its beauty and story...not so much for its resale value to a collector. :roll:

PS Evil Grin I still hate the idea of Brownberry and Longbranch being Nightfall's parents....wrong Evil Grin wrong Evil Grin wrong Evil Grin

freistern

i just read kahvi and i have to agree: kahvi ain't supposed to be a wolfrider, come on it is like saying ... whoa lord voll is cutters uncle... great, it just doesn't fit the way the people are behaving!

kahvi was always a real go-back for me, one of those who can't remember (just like skot and krim)... one of those who is doing everything for the palace! but noooooo kahvi is a wolfrider... great°*g*

Quietshadow

While I wouldn't have a problem with Khavi as a wolfrider, ie descended from Two-Spear, the suspended anumation pool was a little hard to believe. And the skills she rediscovered at the end were just that - skills. They weren't anything special that having wolfblood automatically gave you. Those things would be night-vision, better sense of smell, keener hearing, and an affinity for wolves (in SaBM or SoTE, Dart explains to Savah that the Jackalwolfriders don't know wolven body-language as well as he does, because it's not in their blood, like it is in his). And I seriously doubt that these would just "sleep" due to disuse. I mean, how could you control how well you smell things?

One more frosty point for me is in Huntress. Ember wants to make troll swords "her" weapon, like it was her father's, and asks Nightfall, who is using them to spar with Skywise, to teach her. But the wolfriders didn't have troll swords until the war for the palace, and didn't use them again afterwards. So how can that be Cutter's "weapon"? (Totally ignoring the fact that he uses New Moon all the time). And why in the world do the "Keepers of the Way" have troll swords, and not the warriors who are actually fighitng? :x

krwordgazer

Those troll swords-- now there is a frosty point with me as well, QuietShadow. All the points you raised are true. I especially find it hard to believe that the troll sword has now become Skywise's great skill, when he had such a difficult time in the War, nearly being killed and all, and the issues of abandonment by Cutter that got raised at that time. You'd think the very sight of those swords would give him a bad taste in his mouth.

But the most insurmountable difficulty to me is, how in Abode did they carry those huge swords across the plains on wolfback, without the reader seeing them sticking out somewhere? And when they were trying to travel light, too! Did the swords just materialize out of thin air? And where did they come from in the first place? There was no indication they had taken any troll swords away from the Palace at the end of Book 4. Did they ask Picknose to make some for them in the new land? If so, why? The only thing that kind of sword is good for is war. They'd be very awkward to hunt with.

Nevertheless, I liked the Huntress story quite a bit. (Except I hated the way the artist drew Moonshade's hair! :? )

That whole troll-sword section could easily have been left out, though.

MultiMEDEA

Quote:
Quietshadow

...And the skills she rediscovered at the end were just that - skills. They weren't anything special that having wolfblood automatically gave you. Those things would be night-vision, better sense of smell, keener hearing, and an affinity for wolves...And I seriously doubt that these would just "sleep" due to disuse. I mean, how could you control how well you smell things?



I think sometimes when people use the term "wolfblood" they forget that they're really talking about genetics. And elves--as a species--are master genetic manipulators, whether that manipulation is conscious or not. Every elf that left their original homeworld was capable of manipulating their physical being at will. Life on Abode has suppressed that power but it didn't eliminate it. It's not out of the realm of probability that Kahvi was capable of (unconsciously) suppressing the effects of alien (wolf) DNA in her body. Especially considering the traumatic clash with her own father over their wolf-bloodedness. And she is of sufficient willpower to recall her genetic gifts when she needs to.

Timmorn (and Two-Edge) had the same conflicts over their dual genetics. Timmorn is capable of calling more of his elfin genes to him or his wolfen ones. Timmain specifically said that was his gift and his legacy. Part of the reason Two Edge was so schzoid was because he couldn't consciously choose how his heritage should manifest itself. It took Leetah's healing (manipulation) powers to bring him to a level of control and sanity.

Leetah even commented on how other species were so fixed in their physical selves (in comparison to elves) when she healed Geoki and Dart from their fall. Why would she say that unless elfin genetics are far more malleable?

Quietshadow

I suppose you're right about genetic manipulation MultiMEDEA. But I don't know if it could be done unconciously - all the elves that I can think of that did it were aware of having a choice.

MultiMEDEA

I can think of two instances: when Timmain was pulled from her wolfen state to her elfin one by the influence of the Palace at the end of the Troll war; when Winnowill reshaped Rayek to, first, her own image, and second, his near High One status. In both of Rayek's instances Winnowill supplanted her consciousness with his but she did need to use his innate talents and power to manage it.

LordDarkhan

[quote:963805f79e]I can think of two instances: when Timmain was pulled from her wolfen state to her elfin one by the influence of the Palace at the end of the Troll war; when Winnowill reshaped Rayek to, first, her own image, and second, his near High One status. In both of Rayek's instances Winnowill supplanted her consciousness with his but she did need to use his innate talents and power to manage it.[/quote:963805f79e]


It always seemed to me that after the war for the palace, Timmain consciously shaped herself back to elf form, thats what she wanted to do. At least thats how It came off to me..


And as far as Rayek and Winnowill..It didnt seem to me in any instance that she needed his innate talents to shapechange him. She could do that completely on her own with her flesh shaping ability.

Shara

Quote:
LordDarkhan


It always seemed to me that after the war for the palace, Timmain consciously shaped herself back to elf form, thats what she wanted to do. At least thats how It came off to me..



I think she consciously shaped herself back (for talk with the wolfrider), but she need the palace energy to do it, because she was a wolf for soo long without changing to an elf at some time.

Quietshadow

Yes, I agree with Shara and Lord Darkhan. Timmain wanted to become an elf again. The Palace probably called to her elfin side, but she conciously changed herself. The thing with Winnowill and Rayek, Winnowill is making a choice for Rayek. He isn't unconciously changing himself. It's similar to her removing Windkin's blood, or shapechanging Tyldak. This time it's her spirit that does the work.

Shara

Quote:
Quietshadow

Yes, I agree with Shara and Lord Darkhan. Timmain wanted to become an elf again. The Palace probably called to her elfin side, but she conciously changed herself. The thing with Winnowill and Rayek, Winnowill is making a choice for Rayek. He isn't unconciously changing himself. It's similar to her removing Windkin's blood, or shapechanging Tyldak. This time it's her spirit that does the work.



The magic it's energy in some way, I always considere it's the spirit who's does, the body have nothing to do with. You can do magic on a body, but the magic not going from it...

I think it's why the wolfrider never want to kill Winnowill. Without her body, she can go anywere with nobody to see her (or scent her). In the end she choose to be kill from Djun. And without Rayek, probably she as 'merge' with the palace and do a lot of damage.

MaxvonBek

Come to think of it, do you reckon that Wendy and Richard 'forgot' about death gentling elven spirits? I'm sure that I (and other people) have brought this up before, but Winnowill was, and is one single soul, and I wouldn't have thought that even she was capable of 'contaminating' the entire Palace! Look how nasty Kureel was in life, then after being released, he was sleeping, and forgave Strongbow almost instantly, so why is Winnie so much worse? I love nearly every aspect of EQ (including New Blood Wink ), but that part of Shards always felt a bit wrong. And why did they let Rayek wander away? Leetah, Timmain, Savah and Suntop were there, and they certainly could have helped him with the Black Snake - he didn't have to shoulder the burden all by himself, its not like Winnowill is his fault!

Quietshadow

Quote:
Shara

I always considere it's the spirit who's does, the body have nothing to do with. You can do magic on a body, but the magic not going from it...



You're right. There are many instances of spirits working magic even when the body is gone, now that I think of it. I suppose that I'm too human to think like an elf ;P

MultiMEDEA

Isn't it kinda hypocritical to say Timmain needed to "borrow" the Palace's energy to willingly shapechange back to her elfin self then also think all elf magic is strictly a matter of spirit so Winnowill can do anything she wants to without a body?

First, as a High One, Timmain is far more powerful than Winnowill and she's been willingly changing her shape for untold millennia. If she consiously wanted to change her shape to talk to her 'children' she could have done it at any time after Cutter fell into the trolls' pit trap. Or when she was so desperate to enter the Palace she clawed and whined at the shield wall. She only tranformed after she passed the Palace's portico. After which Treestump proclaimed, "...And now the Palace has returned her to us--as a High One!" I don't brush that off as a simple aside 'cause the Pinis are (were) pretty careful about language and dialog and how the two progress a story.

That Timmain was (rather) unconscious of her status change is easy to see in the subsequent dialog. The elves' first communication with her was Suntop's sending. But after she transformed she spoke--verbalized--not sent. And when she did talk, she spoke of herself in the 3rd person.

"Time...the wolf could not mark it's passing...she--I...was
not aware..."

And she didn't send until Strongbow (the purest of senders) sent to her. He saw that she was still wrapped up in the now of wolfthought and slowly working her way back to the endlessness of elfin thought.

I still say Winnowill (and other bodiless elves) need a physical base to work true magic (meaning matter and energy manipulation beyond themselves). Winnowill meant to infuse herself into the Palace shards to wreak maximum damage. The only ones who were ever vulnerable to her on the astral plane were those who had left their spirits open to her there. The Gliders didn't immediately head for the Palace when Blue Mountain fell. They wanted and needed a physical nexus to maintain and direct their energy to a single purpose. Someone strong enough in his own right to manage that.

Hello, Rayek?

LordDarkhan

[quote:b61224b420]They wanted and needed a physical nexus to maintain and direct their energy to a single purpose. Someone strong enough in his own right to manage that[/quote:b61224b420]

I believe Rayek said it himself they went into his body because they needed Direction. Even in death they still needed to be guided and instructed. not because they needed a physical nexus.

Shara

Quote:
MultiMEDEA

Isn't it kinda hypocritical to say Timmain needed to "borrow" the Palace's energy to willingly shapechange back to her elfin self then also think all elf magic is strictly a matter of spirit so Winnowill can do anything she wants to without a body?



She can't do anything (be a spirit don't give more power), but she can do more I think, she is totaly free. She choose to be kill in the Shard war and I think it's because what she want can be easely reach if she was a spirit. She was trap in her body for long time before steel the palace, she probably have fear to be trap again by the power of Timmain, Suntop, Venka, Leetah and Rayek. So she choose to be totaly free by killing his body. In spirit, she plan nobody can trap her again, but rayek does, trape her in his own body. In all of the history, they never want to kill her because she can do more damage if she was spirit, so if it's true, the body give some restriction.

Quote:
MultiMEDEA


[...]And she didn't send until Strongbow (the purest of senders) sent to her. He saw that she was still wrapped up in the now of wolfthought and slowly working her way back to the endlessness of elfin thought.



in some story, they said Timmain begun more wolf with the time. We can't know, but if we supose she be a wolf for millennia. What you have said can also be because she was not a elf for long time and she need some time to remember. Or maybe it's the palace who force the change... I think the two can be...

MultiMEDEA

Quote:
LordDarkhan


I believe Rayek said it himself they went into his body because they needed Direction. Even in death they still needed to be guided and instructed. not because they needed a physical nexus.



They needed directions to get to the Palace? Like MapQuest or something? :D Elves go there automatically after death. Unless they have a specific reason not to, plus a place elsewhere they can inhabit. The Gliders as a group had enough collective power to defy the call of the Palace for a short time. But they still needed a physical Rayek to focus that power so they didn't wind up as individual spirits hanging around the joint when they finally made it there. Winnowill directed their thoughts and powers while they still had bodies, but moments after they lost those bodies they anchor to another body! They didn't just hover around Rayek like the Ghost of Christmas past, they inhabited him and caused specific physical changes to him. Like Winnowill. Also like Winnowill he didn't seem to be conscious of the change until after someone pointed out to him.

MaxvonBek

Did he actually get taller at that point? You could sort of see that his Go-Back clothing looked a bit tight, but he didn't seem to have much more height than before. At least not when compared to Rogue's Curse Rayek. Also, the Gliders were so atrophied in spirit when Blue Mountain fell, that one body was a good as the next (Rayek's), and perhaps drowsy spirits can't find the Palace easily - remember, theres never been an exact description of how it draws the spirits to it, just that it does, and that up until the end of the Shards War, the spirits already in the Palace were slumbering, so we'll assume that they went this way after they entered (Kureel), but that the Gliders were already dozy, didn't have that "astral push" to send them off to the Palace. I know that might sound odd, but it makes sense to me, although I seem to be losing focus on the screen.

LordDarkhan

[quote:c070b5f221]They needed directions to get to the Palace? Like MapQuest or something? Elves go there automatically after death. Unless they have a specific reason not to, plus a place elsewhere they can inhabit.[/quote:c070b5f221]

No not directions...but direction. As he stated in the book, their whole long lives, they never did anything on their own, so they still needed to be guided, they still needed direction they needed to be told what to do. They still needed someone to tell them what they should be doing with their power, lives or whatever. And since he was so connected to him when he was guiding them around the great egg, they chose him as their mountain, to give them direction or guidance until they came so close to the palace they could resist the call no longer and then hurtled rayek and themselves into the palace.

twen

I have to agree that Nightfall as Brownberry/Longreach's daughter is annoying. I loved the anthologies--frosted off that they just stopped on several cliffhangers in volume 5!! I know that since they aren't all Pini-authored, I guess things are up for change, but they are Pini-edited--shouldn't their version of events be considered? I loved the story of Rhanee the She-Wolf in Volume 1, the opening is about Nightfall's search for herself and Longreach coming to find her, but NOT as her father.

Anyway, I'm an old reader--haven't read much published after Kings of the Broken Wheel and am probably overly attached to the anthologies, so feel free to ignore me. :roll:

Prism

The main problem with the anthologies is consistency. In one story, Nightfall is an infant younger then Cutter and Foxfur is a full-fledged warrior, in another Nightfall and Foxfur are 6 when Bearclaw and Joyleaf Recognize. The anthologies play around too much with established ages to be considered canon.
And sometimes a kid doesn't inherit pure coloring. Skywise's hair was silver-white and he inherited the grey coloring from Shale yet Shale's hair is more of a middle grey coloring. Same with One-Eye and Scouter both have chestnut hair, yet One-Eye's hair is lighter then Scouter's. Cutter was a blonde like Joyleaf but while her hair was golden, his is more like pampas grass in coloring. In other words the kids might inherit some of their parents coloring but probably not the exact shade,tint or hue.

micinjensue

Don't Read if You Don't Own or Haven't Read S&tS

Well, one of my beefs was about Ahdri being killed off by Blair (blech!), now she's back...and I think I'm peeved about her being alive again... boy I do vacillate :P !

Opinions?

LordDarkhan

Im actually happy to have her back. Just goes to show you how little peopel think of blairs story...lol

micinjensue

Ah Darkhan I'm actually pretty happy she's back...I always maintained that her genetic material needed to be passed along. Start makin babies girl Grin ! Hmmm, if Windkin comes back and he and Ahdri spark (recognize) they have the makin of starting a new Blue Mountian... Glider and Rockshaper...the stuff of Blue Mountian Wink .

Just ramblin here :roll:

LordDarkhan

[quote:6775157790]Hmmm, if Windkin comes back and he and Ahdri spark (recognize) they have the makin of starting a new Blue Mountian... Glider and Rockshaper...the stuff of Blue Mountian [/quote:6775157790]

I love the way you think... That is an excellent Idea.. im 100% for it :D

MultiMEDEA

Plus Aurek and Aroree. They would be great together, have all the requisive glider/rockshaper skills, and all of Glider history at their disposal with Aurek as 'Father of Memory'. And Aroree needs a baby! "Papa" Ekuar, Uncle Rayek, and Uncle Two-Edge could stop by every once and a while for rockshaping & flying lessons and Sun Village history. :D

krwordgazer

I like it, I like it! :D

KingJohnny

I'm not sure if this was brought up before or not, but since Khavi is Two-Spear's daughter, does that mean that Cutter rolled in the furs with his many-times great-grandmother? Or would that be his many-times great-aunt?

We know that inbreeding goes on with the elves, being so little of them, but it usually seems to be 2nd or 3rd cousins, never an aunt/uncle or anyone closer. But a grandmother or great-aunt? Surprised

Arthis

Well, 2nd cousins is a much stronger blood link than many time great great aunt...

KingJohnny

I know, but some people might not mind that. But if you throw the words "aunt" or "grandma" in the mix, it sounds weird. That's like saying, would you go back in time and roll in the furs with one of them? Of course, it's not like Khavi was some old hag. She was a hot little bundle of yumminess just aching for the kind of pleasure I could, I mean, Cutter could give he. Wink

KingJohnny

give HER.

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