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Winno-wicked, er, Winnowill 2.0

MultiMEDEA

Thoughts?


EDIT: This thread originally had a Poll that asked...

Wnnowill...?

*Good! (com'mon, someone must think that)
*Bad!
*Misunderstood!
*Nuts!
*Just Drawn That Way

dewshine_lover_1

I voted bad..but should have gone for misunderstood..i dont know i think shes gone nuts. having all the healing power and then some..and not being able to use it..feeling useless..killed her spirit.

Foxeye

In book 3 she was minorly bad, but in a sympathetic "human" sort of way. She was trying to protect her family, just like Cutter was trying to protect his. Her concerns and ambitions made a sort of sense. In books 5-6, she was nuts. Tipped over and competely unaware of just how messed up she was being. In book 8 she was back to being bad, but in an understandably "hot rage" sort of way.

From there on out...she was "just drawn that way". Turned into Default Villainess, because they needed SOMETHING to use as the Big Bad in the storylines. I really didn't appreciate that at all, nor do I appreciate her current condition as "angry possessing demon/spirit".

I want pre-tortured-soul Rayek back. Evil Grin And I want a winnowill storyline where she isn't the one-dimensional bad girl who likes to create mutant animals and harass every other elf she meets.

joyleaf1

yeah i realy kindof feel sorry for her, being useless except to twist others for her own intertainment was just bad. she made elfquest intaresting thoe....i kind of miss her realy, am i crazy for that? i think so. :oops:

Kchaiya

I would like to see Winnie go back into real character mode, but I most definitly do NOT want pre-tortured-soul Rayek back. One of the reasons he's such a great character is because of how much he's changed over the course of the series... More than stock villianess, I think her role in the story now is to push forward his character development, and she's done it quite well.

Leanan

I don't think she's misunderstood.

I mean, I understand her a bit TOO well sometimes.

There's some dark part in me that wants power at any cost... that might even be capable of dealing pain...

Winnie's nuts.

But so am I...

emerald

She is beautiful though...

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

crescent1325

a beautiful mask for a tortured soul.

cutter_wolfzorn

could we post some pictures of her from books 5-8 I only have the first four books and I would like to see how she changes her looks

Kitt

...'s not from a book, but still...

crescent1325

is it me or does she look like she got some hammer toes going on? See thats why she is so grumpy. All the other elves have pretty little feets and she got ugly ones... Grin :twisted:

Foxeye

I noticed this one for the first time today in the sketches section of elfquest.com...quite a change! (Click on image for a bigger version)

PCoquelin

Very interesting sketches, indeed.

And Winnowill has had millenias to refine her evil



"Bad, bad, bad highthing !"
:thbpt:

crescent1325

WOW Surprised she is a little more **slinky** looking.. Grin

krwordgazer

I agree with PC Oquelin. I don't think Winnowill has left her "real character mode," but that she's been slowly getting worse over time. Her madness is progressive. In Blue Mountain, when she was still at least partially under Voll's restraint, she was better. After Voll's death, she got worse. Leetah's aborted healing attempt made things a lot worse-- and then she had 10,000 years to "refine her evil," as PC says-- or to dwell on her injuries and perfect her bitterness. Then she learned with Grohmul Djun the intricacies of domination in ways she hadn't before.

I think the way we see her now is the author's conception of what such a character would become when all constraints of physicality are removed-- and then she is imprisoned against her will in the body of her jailor.

She's reached the pinnacle of where her choices have led her. Now it's up to Rayek to try to lead her back.

PCoquelin

.. then it's a loooooooong way back to sanity ! :?

MultiMEDEA

Some Winnie art:

crescent1325

[color=indigo:91ca2f73da]thats cute!!![/color:91ca2f73da]

ElfTanner

I will never forgive her for torturing Strongbow like that. but I wrote her a poem ayway. It is really long.

Black Snake
Living in a mountain, a lovemate and a home.
Healing powers kept inside, feeling so alone.
A stranger found, his memory lost,
Joined and offspring made.

Caverns deep, never asleep, what to do with you.

His memory found. His mission remembered,
She will not let him hurt them.
Mate is dead, thoughts twisted in the head.
Her powers loosed and flowing.

Screams coming from the cage, you’re no son of mine.

Returning to her master, steering his plans off course.
Preservers away, to the Palace he’ll not go forth.
Dealing pain, to fix the hurts, they think they need her again.
Strangers come, beastly elves, must be dealt with soon.

Recognition, not with one of mine!

Turn their thoughts, steal their names,
Their will is stronger then most.
Deal with Voll, the game begins,
Damn that half blood host.

Stolen child, Stolen soul, a healing not quit finished.

Dreams remembered, life is lost, a war begins in snow.
New elves found, and new love tart as wine.
Brown skin, dark hair, and a heart fragile to begin with.
With him I’ll play a new game. The palace will be mine.

Healing botched, Palace lost, stranded on an Island.

The sea rushes in, she changes again, to live ”˜nieth water.
The palace is gone, time flies by, her love returns much later.
Put in a trance, now’s her chance; to take over the palace.
A new mind comes, sears her thoughts, the palace falls and shatters.

Call to the human, gather the palace, Go to war with them.



Shards are gathered, the Scroll of colors, a room made of crystal.
Must drive the Djun mad, and ignore the mad ramblings
flowing from the walls
A new game he says. She plays along, while he helps the beastly ones.

With deformed dogs, and powers strong. No one dares to stop me.

That searing mind, a strong will she once tried to break,
Both keeping her far from winning.
She knows she’s loosing, she turns to the Djun and sees his crazy eyes.
A Highone comes. A fight endures. My soul is lost to the living.

Free at last, The Palace is mine. NO! Don’t cage me in.

His love is strong. His love is strange.
The one thing I cannot fight.
He pulls me in so no one else will suffer,
Ready to hold on tight.

The palace is lost to me. My soul will never be free.

A cavern deep, never to sleep, She keeps him on his toes.
Her powers kept inside, her true feeling never shows.
He travels the world with his friend,
Peace forever beyond him.

“Sleep my Love, This at least I can give you.”

She’ll try to break free later.

MultiMEDEA

Wow, I usually don't like poems, but that one really works for me, ElfTanner. Nice job! :D

ElfTanner

Thanks Mulitmedea. It took me a long time to finish it.

nevaratoiel

At first Winnowill was greatly bad. I loved her. But as time went on she became crazy/insane. That's when I stopped liking her.

joyleaf1

Quote:
nevaratoiel

At first Winnowill was greatly bad. I loved her. But as time went on she became crazy/insane. That's when I stopped liking her.




*ponders* ya know so far the only realy nice thing i have herd u say on here was about dart.....tehehee, do u even like the elves and elfquest....tehehee, i mean no harm here but u seem to not like much Wink
*ponders some more*........

nevaratoiel

Quote:
joyleaf

*ponders* ya know so far the only realy nice thing i have herd u say on here was about dart.....tehehee, do u even like the elves and elfquest....tehehee, i mean no harm here but u seem to not like much Wink
*ponders some more*........


Ahem... I said nice things about Strongbow, Dart, Moonshade... they're just my favourite character. Let's see, then we have Scouter, Dewshine, Clearbrook, One Eye, Leetah..... um... Do you need me to post in every of those topics just to 'prove' that I like Elfquest? Or maybe I should prove that I'm not here on the board to stir things up... I just post in topics (mostly) of which I feel I have something to say of at that particular moment. Does it matter that I'm not always positive? ....... :?

windtwirl

i think that mostly she is crazy...mmmmm... still waiting for leetah to finish that healing :roll: can she heal souls without a body? *ponder and imagine a released soul at peace and great addition to the power of the palace* :twisted: hey, it still is a kind of palace ownership Wink

Kathleen

Quote:
nevaratoiel


Ahem... I said nice things about Strongbow, Dart, Moonshade... they're just my favourite character. Let's see, then we have Scouter, Dewshine, Clearbrook, One Eye, Leetah..... um... Do you need me to post in every of those topics just to 'prove' that I like Elfquest? Or maybe I should prove that I'm not here on the board to stir things up... I just post in topics (mostly) of which I feel I have something to say of at that particular moment. Does it matter that I'm not always positive? ....... :?



No, not at all! Why should we only talk about the positive side of elves? We'd lose a lot of great debate that way.

I think Winnowill is whiny, selfish, and not terribly sensible.

krwordgazer

It's easy to get a bit defensive when someone else doesn't like our own favorites-- but I agree that differences of opinion make for good discussion. :)

nevaratoiel

Oh... I never said I didn't like Winnowill. I like the OLD Winnowill, just not the lady Venovel Winnowill... After she'd been left on that island it's only gone downwards with her.

krwordgazer

A lot of people agree with you, Neveratoiel. But as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think that was the author's intention. . .



BTW, love the poem, ElfTanner! And the doll, Medea!

joyleaf1

Quote:
nevaratoiel

[quote:583144de9f="joyleaf"]*ponders* ya know so far the only realy nice thing i have herd u say on here was about dart.....tehehee, do u even like the elves and elfquest....tehehee, i mean no harm here but u seem to not like much Wink
*ponders some more*........


Ahem... I said nice things about Strongbow, Dart, Moonshade... they're just my favourite character. Let's see, then we have Scouter, Dewshine, Clearbrook, One Eye, Leetah..... um... Do you need me to post in every of those topics just to 'prove' that I like Elfquest? Or maybe I should prove that I'm not here on the board to stir things up... I just post in topics (mostly) of which I feel I have something to say of at that particular moment. Does it matter that I'm not always positive? ....... :?[/quote:583144de9f]


hey there, its ok...calm down...teheeeheheheee, like i said above i mena no harm here im just talkin to you. dont get all defencive on me there its alright.....u dont have to like or dislike anything realy....I just thought id say...well i was wondering realy.....nothing more :oops: 8) Grin

Trollbabe

Liked the Winnowill doll but wonder where you should keep it. I mean, if you keep it in your home, what happens when you go to sleep? (Shudder)

Seriously, I think Winnowill is judged too often by standards that don't exist. When there are no laws in place to restrain one's actions, what law has she broken? Human laws don't apply to her. Laws of other Elf tribes don't apply to her. Do the High Ones have some kind of charter or constitution that everyone had to sign in order to be in the comics?

My cousin Gnat says, if Elves were judged by the laws of the land, you'd see them on "Cops" all the time. He says Winnowill came back as Hillary Clinton. I wish he'd buy his own 'Bella Bites and stop mooching from my stash.

nomad-human

Well I put in my two cents about this topic. I think she is deservedly damned, I want nothing more than to see the back of her. Get rid of her, leave her a loose end. Have Rayek come back without her in his head and just saying "She's gone folks.".

I really don't care WHAT happens to her as long as I don't have to read about her anymore. She did her thing, she fulfilled her palce in the storyline (as in, just 'cause they're pretty doesn't mean that all elves are good people who deserve good things to happen to them). Let her rest and give us a new villian who we can all love to hate. Because in the end that's what great villians are...characters we absolutely love to hate.

Fourleafclover

Hooray! Nice to see you back Nomad-Human! :D

krwordgazer

Quote:
Trollbabe


Seriously, I think Winnowill is judged too often by standards that don't exist. When there are no laws in place to restrain one's actions, what law has she broken? Human laws don't apply to her. Laws of other Elf tribes don't apply to her. Do the High Ones have some kind of charter or constitution that everyone had to sign in order to be in the comics?



I think most of the elves do have one standard-- not exactly a law. Do you love, or do you use? Winnowill isn't called "the loveless one" for nothing.

PCoquelin

And she wasn't always like that...

Trollbabe

krwordgazer wrote: "I think most of the elves do have one standard-- not exactly a law. Do you love, or do you use? Winnowill isn't called "the loveless one" for nothing."

I agree about this being a standard rather than a law. Would love too see some EQ fan/law student pick up on that one.

Winnowill does love something, or at least herself, depending upon one's definition of love. She acts out of self-preservation when necessary. I hope she does stick around in some form or another.

One thing that people probably find most scary about Winnowill is that she is female, attractive, intelligent and powerful. Being both a mother and a murderer contradicts the traditions of human society (as dramatized in Lady Macbeth's sleepwalking scene.) As examples, movie monsters are often stupid enough to be outwitted. Darth Vader is aceptible as a commander of legions of evildoers because he is male. Movie "bad girls" are defeated when they lose the power that they derive from manipulating men, unless they have some kind of fantasy power of their own.

I saw the last "X-Men" movie and was bothered that they used the "B" word, maybe twice, to refer to villainesses - and I think this type of misogyny (spelling) is an example of what I'm talking about.

krwordgazer

The misogyny in our culture does exist, I agree-- but Trollbabe, what you said about Winnowill: "female, attractive, intelligent and powerful," applies also to Savah, and Timmain. Do people find them scary? I don't know. I think Winnowill represents a type-- the beautiful woman without mercy-- and the scary thing is not that a female can't be attractive, intelligent and powerful, but that it's troubling that a beautiful woman would also be cruel and heartless. You're right that women are thought of as nurturers, and that Winnie turns the whole motherhood thing on its head in a frightening way.

I don't think that women in our culture are considered frightening just for being intelligent and attractive -- though I think some people still find the thought of a woman in power disconcerting. Elfquest, though, obviously doesn't. :)

As for laws vs. standards-- I'm no lawyer, but as a paralegal I would say that most elf tribes don't actually have any laws at all-- no real body of do's and dont's passed down by the culture and enforced by the rulers. The Way is the closest thing any elf tribe has to a law. The Sun Village has a principle -- do no harm-- but I wouldn't call that a law, either.

I kind of think this topic deserves its own thread, though-- if anyone else wants to continue to discuss it. :)

Nowth

[quote:2b12e94261="Trollbabe"]Darth Vader is aceptible as a commander of legions of evildoers because he is male.[/quote:2b12e94261]
Hm, is that so? I didn't know he was acceptable. Isn't that actually misandry? How is it a good thing to be an acceptable planet-destroying fear-monger?

krwordgazer

Good point, Nowth. I actually found Darth Vader considerably more frightening than I have ever found Winnowill. It's something about the impersonality of that blank face mask (shudders).

MultiMEDEA

But that Suntoucher rocks! Who knew they had it goin' on behind the scenes? :P

PCoquelin

* grumble * MUST find back that [b:2fea59cb7b]sketch with Vader and Winnowill[/b:2fea59cb7b]...
.. went something like "Elfquest in Hollywood",
  and Vader was practising his heavy panting before her, if I remember well ..

May someone help ? Pretty pleeeeeeeze !

xenophile80

Those are some nice costumes. The head back, wide open eyes thing throws off the Winnie for me, but.. I always think of her with eyes slighty narrowed looking down at you sorta thing

Kitt

[quote:12dff638ec="PCoquelin"]* grumble * MUST find back that [b:12dff638ec]sketch with Vader and Winnowill[/b:12dff638ec]...
.. went something like "Elfquest in Hollywood",
and Vader was practising his heavy panting before her, if I remember well ..

May someone help ? Pretty pleeeeeeeze ![/quote:12dff638ec]


[color=green:12dff638ec]I know what you're talking about, but I don't remember where I saw it :?[/color:12dff638ec]

PCoquelin

Good point, Nowth. I actually found Darth Vader considerably more frightening than I have ever found Winnowill. It's something about the impersonality of that blank face mask (shudders).


But there was a man ( oh, well, the remnants of a man ) behind it...





Poor Anakin...

krwordgazer

Oh, that's priceless! Grin Thanks, PC!

Badger

Well something just reminded me about Winnowill and her evilness/something...
I think she just got bored. If she'd had any lack of imagination, she'd just got some black plastic bags/the substitute for plastic bags and decorated all the walls of her lair with them. Or done something other as stupid as that.
There. I'll go now someplace else to tell my opinions.

Trollbabe

Badger, that reminds me of the saying and its variations about idleness being the Devil's playground or playthings or whatever. Yes, a bored intellectual can be very creative, for good or for evil.

Willowspring

*stares at the winnowill and darth vader and falls out of her chair laughing* oh my gosh!!!

valkerie

Oh Winnie and Darth Thats Priceless Grin
Anyway I just stopped by to Post My Piccy of young Winnowill I hope you all Like it :)
[img:93e8866913]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/valkerie/Youngwinniecolored.jpg[/img:93e8866913]

JadeOwl

[quote:ca05cc49ca="PCoquelin"][quote:ca05cc49ca="krwordgazer"]Good point, Nowth. I actually found Darth Vader considerably more frightening than I have ever found Winnowill. It's something about the impersonality of that blank face mask (shudders).[/quote:ca05cc49ca]

But there was a man ( oh, well, the remnants of a man ) behind it...[/quote:ca05cc49ca]

And that's part of what's so scary. I no longer find Winnowill scary for the same reason I no longer find Vader scary: I know everything about them. They're predictable. I might even go so far as to say overused. They are no longer effective as a villain because they no longer cause the breath to catch in your throat as you read/watch their evil schemes. Your heart no longer races when you find out who's behind the latest plot for universe domination/the palace/power, because tht's the only person it could be.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm a fan of the old Winnowill. The Winnowill that was crazy, unpredictable, yet had completely understandable motives : keeping herself and her people safe nd under her control.

Thaïs

[quote:637664e502="Jade Owl"]I no longer find Winnowill scary for the same reason I no longer find Vader scary: I know everything about them. They're predictable. I might even go so far as to say overused. They are no longer effective as a villain because they no longer cause the breath to catch in your throat....
In case you couldn't tell, I'm a fan of the old Winnowill. The Winnowill that was crazy, unpredictable, yet had completely understandable motives : keeping herself and her people safe nd under her control.[/quote:637664e502]

Amen.

I miss the old Winnowill. I really do. I've been fascinated with her from the start, and I miss that fierce protective side of her, the part of her that was prepared to do anything to defend her people and achieve their goals. She's not much different from Cutter in that regard. I loved how multidimensional she was, and it saddens me that she’s become the default cardboard bad-guy that can be blamed anything a situation is less-than idyllic. She was the misguided idealist who's grip on sanity slowly ebbed away, not bad. If she just decided to be evil, she'd be a whole lot better at it if she had all her marbles...

Whenever I think of Winnowill, I'm reminded of one of my favorite passages of Shakespeare:

"Then must you speak
Of one that loved not wisely but too well;
Of one not easily jealous, but being wrought,
Perplex'd in the extreme; of one whose hand,
Like the base Indian, threw a pearl away
Richer than all his tribe."
-- Othello

Winnowill loved passionately, devoted herself to Voll and his cause, and was then abandoned emotionally once her people no longer needed her. She was not valued for herself, but as the Glider's Healer and Voll's lovemate. She became an icon rather than an individual, and that sort of pressure causes people to snap and lose perspective. When you take into account her thwarted healer's gifts, it's no wonder she began the slow spiral in to madness. If you had a festering wound, mental and/or physcial for hundreds of years, you'd go a bit batty too.

I think it's important to remember that she didn’t start out as the loveless one, she became that way, and the stagnation of Blue Mountain is at least partially to blame for the fracturing of her mind.

Windwalker

Anybody ever heard of the Cruxshadows? They have a song that could easily be Winnowill's theme song.


Watching backwards as life like pictures
Stinging thoughts, born with phantoms
We danced above a world forgotten
Moments cherished... even now
A train-wrecked heart loves fairy tales
Singing from a gaping wound
However time has left unsettled
My memories play out of tune

You can't unmake
a cold mistake
You can't undo
the hearts you break
You can't erase
the poet's fate
Not even if you try

And she had Audrey Hepburn's smile
With deeper sadder eyes
The only thing she said
No one hears Cassandra cry
Because the earth is standing still
And the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet
No one hears Cassandra cry

A heartfelt sorrow I believe
Offered this for passion's crime
A crippled satellite trapped in orbit
My memories play out of time

You can't unmake
a cold mistake
You can't undo
the hearts you break
You can't erase
the poet's fate
Not even if you try...

The listless price of my descension
Where emptiness has pulled me down
Cascading from my divagation
Below the frozen winter skies
Pythonic sadness unreleased
As serpents rigid in cold
Waiting for the warmth of Sunday
Before the cruelty of growing old

Are you listening?
Are you listening?
Are you listening now?
Like Orpheus with hope entangled
Your path was mapped about your feet
Leading backwards into forgiveness
Or forward to a fools retreat

Wolfrider

Winnowill: Paingiver. Lifeshaper. The Black Snake. The Loveless One. "Winno-wicked."
I've always been fascinated by her, even while being disgusted by her actions. To me, no villain can measure up to her, since so many others are just black-and-white, nothing beyond the evil exterior. It is (or was) different with Winnowill. At some point (round about KoBW) she started to believe what people say about her, or went further nuts over 10,000 years and became our all purpose baddie. :?

Here is one of my drawings of Winnowill from my fanart thread (though recently tweaked and upgraded from the original). It's called Sisters Of The Moon, named after a song by Fleetwood Mac that it appears on their 1979 album Tusk. The lyrics follow the picture:

[img:bb3cefd76b]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/shireling/lotr2/Elfquest/SistersoftheMoon2-1.jpg[/img:bb3cefd76b]

Sisters Of The Moon
(Written by Stevie Nicks)

Intense silence
As she walked in the room
Her black robes trailing
Sister of the moon
And a black widow spider makes
More sound than she
And black moons in those eyes of hers
Made more sense to me
Heavy persuasion
It was hard to breathe
She was dark at the top of the stairs
And she called to me

And so I followed
As friends often do
I cared not for love, nor money
I think she knew
The people, they love her
And still they are the most cruel
She asked me
Be my sister, sister of the moon

Some call her sister of the moon
Some say illusions are her game
They like to wrap her in velvet
Does anyone, ooh, know her name

---

Now, who's Winnowill calling to in that song? Who's the narrator? I'm not sure. Metaphorically, could be Leetah. Or one of the other gliders. I dunno. I just love that song, and I think it says so much about Winnowill's alluring yet sinister personality.

Nightsea

Quote:
emerald


Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting



FroN WH3r3?

K3YZ QUIrKY 4GIV3 PL3AS3
:oops: :roll: --NS

Nightsea

Sorry about the odd post above. My computer went
wiggy just as I was trying to post. I'd have edited it,
but now I have more to say on the subject of Winnowill,
plus I hope that emerald can still guess that I
am wondering where the image is from.

valkerie and Wolfrider both made lovely
images of her. I like the costume in the young version
very much, and think it is talented of you to have her
hair highlights and her outfit highlights in different
shades while still suggesting that everything is black.

As for Wolfrider's image, it is well done and
it brings up one question I
have about Winnowill...
and that is...
what color are her eyes?

Anyone know? In the comics I know
eye and hair color has changed somewhat from time
to time on different characters. But I wonder if there's
one definate set of attributes listed anyplace? I'm sure
there might be for some of the major characters...&
Winnie should be considered major enough wouldn't
we agree?

Curious,
--Nightsea

I just made them sorta grey/black in this one:

Nowth

Quote:
Wind walker

Anybody ever heard of the Cruxshadows?


Certainly.

Treefox

Such a good question! As I drew my Winnowill yesterday, I wondered the same. It changes a lot...probably according to her mood. Seems to be toward
the greyish-blue side though. But when one looks at cover art of the OQ (What Is the Way?) her eyes are rather multi-colored...

Nightsea

Just thought of something...maybe it is because of her
power that she can change eyecolor?

I like the grey-blue color but sometimes have seen
her with a goldish hue which also makes her look a
bit feral. Multiple colors depending on mood might
be right for her as a character!

8)
--Nightsea

Of course, if you keep her all in black and white, it doesn't
matter. She's all black at heart:

MultiMEDEA

I believe it was mentioned in the Gatherum a while back that, because of her powers, her eyes can change colors. The coolest eyecolors she's had were on the cover of GN #5 Siege at Blue Mountain.

Treefox

*gets book out* Wow...very cool. So feral.

[quote:649fb1a545]I believe it was mentioned in the Gatherum a while back that, because of her powers, her eyes can change colors.[/quote:649fb1a545]

Yep, I can absolutely imagine that.

martoo

I loved her eyes on the cover of ... I think it was Number 12 of the original quest !!!

micinjensue

Someone, somewhere (in this thread) said that Winni was one dimensional... she is definitely not that. Winni is deep, complex and twisted, she holds to her ideals by sheer force of self-beleif and determination that she is right and we have seen every step of the way what changes in her life have sculted her into being what she is and what she becomes. Winni is a very well rounded character, we have watched her being shaped into each new level of evilness, but ultimately her goal hasn't changed it simply morphed into grander perspectives as her knowledge expanded. First it was protect her people. Then it was protect her people and all pure bloods by removing them for the influences of the world, then it was give the high ones back themselves (ok...she made the suggestion to Rayek) and thereby they/she would never have to suffer/be tainted by the world...etc etc etc. I don't really know what her final goal was with the Djun...except of course to get the palace back...but what she planned to do with it once she had it? Maybe to continue with the suggestion she'd made to Rayek?

Well... at any rate, I miss Winni, I wish she wasn't confined within Rayek's mind trying to slowly drive him insane so as to gain her freedom. Killing her off was shocking to me because she was so utterly and perfectly the story's nemesis.

Furthermore I like how she was so beautiful and so bad. Evil somehow doesn't seem right, Winni was sick, she truly was ill and she could have been healed if she'd allowed it, but she made a conscious decision to embrace her illness and allow it to become her focus. Still the words "Evil Beauty" do fit very well when describing her... Wink

twinklebug

Quote:
micinjensue

Well... at any rate, I miss Winni, I wish she wasn't confined within Rayek's mind trying to slowly drive him insane so as to gain her freedom. Killing her off was shocking to me because she was so utterly and perfectly the story's nemesis.


She was for a while, but I personally think they overdid her a little. It seems like the main conflict in every storyline past Book 3 had something to do with Winnowill, and it got a bit tedious. Not that she wasn't a good villain, it just would have been nice to have some more variety.

Nightsea

Well I think of evil as willingly hurting others, as a very basic
definition. And Winnie has no qualms in that department, like
using others to meet her own goals, leeching dreams off her
prey, twisting bodies with black sendings to cause pain and
death... she's a bad bad baddie!

But hot...yes! Gotta dig the whole Goth Queen thing.

I drew an image of her tonight just as she is changing from
Aurora to Winnowill...not quite into the black outfit, but no
flowers in her hair. A butterfly/moth to symbolize the
transformaion is included in my fast image that I called
"About to Change":
[img:04163f97a5]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/abouttochange.gif[/img:04163f97a5]

Smaller version, sans moth:
[img:04163f97a5]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/turning.gif[/img:04163f97a5]

Feeling cocooned by winter snow,
--Nightsea

Treefox

I like the first version better! I love this gown.

Nightsea

Yeah, the second one kinda has an
"Elvira Mistress of the Dark" thing goin' on!

hehehe
--Nightsea

Bluedepth

Would anyone like to post the pic's you are talking about (about her eyes)? I have only black and white books so i dont get to see her eyes. I too have really no idea of what colour they are...

I love and hate winnovill in my way. I love her beauty and what she could have been, I too love the moment she sees the palace for the first time. and i love the idea that she mated a troll and had a child for him. I love it that she loved so much and did all she could for those she loved. I even love her in her sorrow when those she loved did not answer her heart.

but i hate her for not forgiving two-edges father. And i hate her weakness for falling into darkness. I hate that she didnt let the gliders have children and well... for everything she did to hurt others.

As a character she is brilliant. To make me feel both love, pity and hate, that is brilliant. I think she is one of wendys greatest creations.

The picture i love most of winnovill is satirettos avi. i dont know from what story it's from but i think it shows winnowill as the elf she was born. before a single drop of evil.

I hope satiretto wont kill me for posting this [img:c114482772]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/Satiretto/V_and_W.jpg[/img:c114482772]

~Blue

MultiMEDEA

I think that's a piece of fan art, Bluedepth. Maybe Terrie Smith's work? I don't believe it ever showed up as an illustration in the Quest.

Bluedepth

WHOA! that some good fan art to fool me as an original wendy pini! :P

~Blue

ElfTanner

I always wondered what Winnowill would have been like if Leetah had finished her healing.

[img:ce4de43ef5]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/ElfTanner/drawings/Winnowill.jpg[/img:ce4de43ef5]

Satiretto

[quote:64d7cfd5b3="MultiMEDEA"]I think that's a piece of fan art, Bluedepth. Maybe Terrie Smith's work? I don't believe it ever showed up as an illustration in the Quest.[/quote:64d7cfd5b3]

It [i:64d7cfd5b3]is[/i:64d7cfd5b3] fanart, MultiMEDEA ”“ it was drawn by Christoph Schilling, who was so kind to let me use it as an avatar. The original can be found [url=http://www.tiscalinet.ch/myworldprod./images/Elfquest/Original/VollWinnowill.jpg]here[/url].

Nightsea

Nice image, [b:a7da266743]ElfTanner[/b:a7da266743]!

My latest is of Winnowill Expecting and I call it
"On the Edge of Two":
[img:a7da266743]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/ontheEdgeofTwo.gif[/img:a7da266743]

I put in the Treewee with the transformed arm. I always felt
so sad for this poor creature after looking at Wendy's version in the
comic. I know Winnowill probably practiced on it before changing
Tyldak, but I bet she'd have been thinking about how she
might shape-change her own child too, to hide it's Troll
nature from Voll and the Gliders. And while I thinkTwo-Edge
came before Tyldak's transformation, I guessed that maybe
she'd have already been thinking of making wings since she
alone of the Gliders couldn't fly and her child would likely
not have that power. Anyway, Two-Edge didn't wind up
with wings and maybe that is because Treewees don't adapt
so well to them.

Ah conjecture,
--Nightsea

Nightsea

[img:9fd7bce485]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/crossedheart.gif[/img:9fd7bce485]

--NS

krwordgazer

Very good, and the first one is amazingly creative and unique! :D

Nightsea

The second one is actually a closeup of the first.
It isn't my best effort, but I liked her face.

*smiles*
--Nightsea

Treefox

Here's my Winnie, with a rather blueish eye color:




Satiretto

And still so very lovely... *gazes dreamily at the pretty Winnie*

Treefox

:oops: Thanks again... You should see the original...her skin color looks much more luminescent... *sigh*

Satiretto

*makes a mental note to send her henchmen over to Treefox to get the original*

Treefox

Oooh, I'd like to welcome them! What drink do they prefer?

Satiretto

Well, blood of course ;-).

Treefox

That's high-quality henchman! I could point some nice sources out to them, I suppose. Ah, they don't make henchmen like that anymore...

Willowspring

Treefox, that is my fav. Winno Wicked... Shes so pretty and carefree

JadeOwl

So I've been thinking abot our Dear Winnie lately (largely because she features into my story)..and I notice that I think of her as YOUNG.

Which id strange. I mean, she's one or the oldest, most powerful, most evil, most badass, most scheming elves in elfquest...yet she seems YOUNG to me.

Thinking about it...

There is something almost VULNERABLE about Winnowill. Like she has a thin veneer of strength over a roiling mass of insecurities and uncertainties and guilt and dreams and hopes....like a teenager.

And I don't think she ever grew up. Sure, she went mad - but the madness wasn't "growing". If anything, it was getting younger again, getting irrational, doing anything for power. Being RASH. An ancient Glider Elder with thousands of years of experience would seem to me to have more forethought, more thinking of what then? What happens when the power is gained? You go to the stars? Selfish.

Thinking about her life...

She started young, in hard times, but was taken care of by her True Love, led by him to safety. There she was needed, sheltered, and useful...until she wasn't anymore. And then she withdrew (a common teenage response - I know, I am one Grin ), grew depressed, and CHANGED. But she didn't grow. She still got what she wanted, and pretty fast. She just used other means to get it. She MADE herself be useful by creating a reason for her to do something - keeping Voll "safe" from the outside world, despite the fact that he kept HER safe in the past....love, irationality, or both?

Now, I'm just thinking aloud here, and I'm making generalizations..but in many ways, Winnie seems like a child. Anyone else see her this way?

Minouche

If she is a child she is a dangerous one. No I don't see her as a child, but rather as an insane person who refuses to take her medication (healing) confusing accepting help controlling her disease with letting others control her. The main consequence is that she lets herself be controlled by her insanity. She is more a tragic monster than a simple "bad" against which the heroes are pitted to get them to shine. Winnie is too deep a character to be just simply wicked.

krwordgazer

It seems to me that a lot of emotional problems can be described as a person getting stuck at a certain stage of development and never progressing beyond it.

It does seem to me that in some ways Winnowill is still a self-centered teen. I think I sort of synthesize your view and Muriel's, Jade Owl, in that I see this stuck-in-youth-ness as part of her insanity.

Nightsea



I like this background because you can imagine it is
maybe the palace, maybe underground at Blue Mountain
where her Troll mate made her something pretty, or in
the main parts of the mountain where the rockshapers
have been at work.

So this is a "whenever" Winnie!
--Nightsea

LadyArill

Ah a Winny of all Seasons/Situations!

Personally I agree with Jade Owl...Winnowill is mature on the outside but on the inside she's just as insecure and frightened as we young humans are(Heck after reading that over my shoulder she stormed into my room and slammed the door.).

This makes me think that Winnowill was less guarded with her emotions...especially around Voll (Jade Owl, the 'True Love' thing just made me grin...) and part of her big change was coldness, guardedness even around her lifemate(As a Vinnomance shipper I refuse to refer to them as anyting less!). Where was I before I got distracted? Oh yes; Jade Owl hit the nail on the head. Winnowill's actions mirror that of a teenager. Maybe she didn't have time to BE a teenager when she and Voll and the others were living in the forest...perhaps she's unconciously compensating for it? Hey it's a thought...

JadeOwl

Well, thanks, Arill. And hm. Thinking, not having childhoods is something the gliders have in common. All of them were either born to the mountain, a cold, empty place where laughter and childishness is lost in the darkness and dust. The silliness, the foolish, delightful, whimsy seems out of place there, seems to intrude on the silence.

It's like they're born an adult....or enough of an adult to survive in a world where every comfort is available to them. They are never hurt, they have plenty of food, they have giant halls, they have beautiful clothing...but for the Eight, they can REMAIN children...the odd, ancient-children that they are raised as.

And the others, the ones born outside the Mountain, why, they lost their childhoods in exactly the opposite way, by being FORCED to grow, forced to fend for themsleves and their companions, being forced to survive. There, too, in that maelstorm of desperation and hunger and fear, a child's curious laughter is wrong, is out of place, is smothered. There, too, they are forced into adulthood - or some form of it.

LadyArill

Half of them are the biggest little kids ever while the other half were the littlest adults ever...

I am offended. Deeply so.

As am I...

Oh, get over yourselves...how could you know?

I KNEW, but SOMEONE chose to ignore me...

I SAID I was sorry!!

Oh, Gods, not this again...(Gets firehose)

Treefox

Yep, also going to post that Winnie-vision from Jade Owl's story Changelings here as well.




Nightsea

[img:5912219bcb]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/facecirclewinne.gif[/img:5912219bcb]

Magic eye-color changing:
[img:5912219bcb]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/magiceyes.gif[/img:5912219bcb]

The one below goes to the May 2007 "grab bag" story
(I'd link to the thread, but I am not sure how):
[img:5912219bcb]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Night_sea/teachmagic.jpg[/img:5912219bcb]

--NS

wildfire

[quote:df087afb4e="Treefox"]Yep, also going to post that Winnie-vision from Jade Owl's story Changelings here as well.




[/quote:df087afb4e]
Think I'll have to read that story, cuz that picture is just.. weird :s Bit like seeing Rayek howling O.o disturbing. But gorgeous art ;)

Winnowill is.. one of my favourites. Dark, mysterious, full of confused feelings, not good/evil. + she has long black hair and pale skin. Gorgeous..
Haven't read Rogue's Curse, but damn! If I can get my hands on it, I will.

Treefox

Thanks wildfire! Please go and read that story, it's extraordinay!

JadeOwl

:oops: :hug2:

Hehe. And it wouldn't be odd to see Rayek howling in my story either, considering he's Wolfrider-raised. Grin

Nightsea

I've been playing with pixels again...









Which version do you like better? How does the coloring
appear in each image? I have noticed that many monitors
show more red and overall lightness than my home PC, so
I've tried to compensate a bit. Did it work?

:?:
--Nightsea

krwordgazer

The top one appears best, Nightsea. The middle one is too dark and the bottom one too washed-out.

Nice image! :D

Nightsea

Actually, the middle one is all dark, just an outline effect.
I did that on purpose.

I like the bright blue of her hair in the top one, but
prefer her robe in the bottom one. Maybe I'll mix
and match those together later.

I also added the hair ornaments/feathers in only the
bottom one. Dunno if anyone noticed.

:)
--NS

Nightsea

Here's how she starts one of her "flying" waves...
(for a version sans starfish, visit the "Naughty" thread):


Yay water!
--Nightsea

JadeOwl

:heart: Winnowill! (I commented more in the "Naughty" thread, just needed to reiterate.) :love:

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