Prrrrretty! Those colors too! Probably her hair would float more under water though.
Whoa ! I have to go to the Naughty Bits thread this very moment, methinks.
Thanks for posting in both places. :)
Here's an image of a Black Sending...
titled "The Last Thing I Saw":
No rest for the Wicked,
Just a fast one I did to calm my nerves...not my best
effort, but it was relaxing to push some pixels around
Yes, I am on a big Winnie kick. She's just soothing to draw
And you're really getting the hang of her. Great hair and pose!
Appreciate the comment.
The pose is from the crucifix and the hair is only highlights
on the black background. I didn't notice the pose thing until
later myself. My Mother's recent death has had me looking
at Christ on the cross in recent days.
PS: here's a revision of one of my older images of Our
Lady of Darkness:
See the Naughty Bits thread for one with fewer seastars.
I just loved Winnie being underwater like a mermaid.
Wish we'd get more Wendy images of her in that state.
that is such a pretty pic of her... she looked sooooo elegant as a wavedancer
I think she looked great underwater. But in her previous
phase she was pretty too.
I know this is one of those questions when, like, on the "Simpsons" all the nerds gather and ask 'Lucy Lawless' "Why where yuou riding a horse of this colour when clearly you were riding a horse of this colour in another scene...." etc etc..
... if Winnowill is of Blue Mountain, why is she unable to fly?
I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I thought maybe I missed something.
Well, it was never really answered, but I think in the Gatherum or the Wolfrider's Guide it was said that "her inner darkness weighed her down".
I don't like that explanation since I think she was never able to glide, and there was a time when there was no inner darkness to speak of :? . So ... Yes, I don't know. Perhaps she just used all her magic potential for healing and had none left for gliding?
I was thinking recently about why WW can't fly, and came up with the same reason: her evil pulls her down.
However, for reasons of storytelling, I think that like Timmain (we see Timmain try to fly one time and then NEVER again, IIRC), WW would just be wayyy too powerful if she could fly in addition to everything else she can do.
If Blue Mountain didn't have stairs and such then our
Wolfrider friends would not have been able to navigate
when they got there.
Aside from a wall torch or two in the shape of a
bird, I wonder how they lit Blue
Mountain? After all, I recently toured an underground
cave and aside from the constant 51 degree F temp.
I noticed that when there was no electric light it was
so totally dark that you couldn't see your own hand in
front of your face. Betcha it is dangerous to go flying
around in the blackness...might hit a wall. Firelight alone
tends to flicker and cast shadows, not illuminate all the
nooks and crannies. I'm guessing it was sometimes
wise to walk even if you could fly!
PS: so I'm on topic:
Made this image for the fanfic I'm working on, but thought I'd
share it here first.
Let's see some more fan art of Winnowill folks! I'm
starting to feel lonely in this thread!
You could consider it a holiday request,
Hey hey Nightsea ! Looks awesome :D
I'm soon putting something up from Winnowill just need some time to make it X_x
Ok...I'll keep her busy while we wait!
PS: Looking forward to your art very much!
Oooh, that's delightful, Nightsea!
Is the white wolf Timmain? She looks like she's thinking, "I love watching my Wolfrider children decorate the tree, but does she have to horn in?"
Ok...two versions...one with the background more to actual
scale, and the other where the image is more focused on
the character. Tell me which one you like better?
I prefer the first one
The first one is better, it's like she's sitting on the edge of the tub. It's more intimate.
Drew Winnie with Voll ^_^
I finally got me a photobucket account so here is a little sketch of our favorite bad girl I made a while ago :)
Ooh, that's gorgeous, Captain! :love: I didn't know you could draw! You've really captured her!
Cute one, Siwan! :D
[quote:c298e26570="captain vimes"]finally got a photobucket account[/quote:c298e26570]
What was holding you back? I love your Winnowill sketch!
You'll have more to share now that you have the space, right?
Because you have the skill!
(I started a thread in the fanfic/fanart forum)
I like it! You really captured her attitude there.
In the March 2008 Grab-Bag thread, PC Oquelin made this comment about Winnowill:
[quote:979193a751="PC Oquelin"]What I find rather strange, considering, is Winnowill's change of attitude all along millenias : from her "this world is not ours", "humans are endlessly amusing", to her desperately looooooooooooooooong waiting for the Palace, her awful "toying with humans" (Redeemer time), her death at the Djun's hands (how ironic), and her ending in Rayek's skull...
Mabe she just learned to wait.
She certainly learned far more, but Rayek isn't to find out, clearly...
( Still on the "when will you learn to love ?" obsession, the poor one ) [/quote:979193a751]
And Manga replied:
[quote:979193a751="manga"]I've often wondered about Winnowill's attitudes towards humans and how they've changed too.[/quote:979193a751]
So, what has caused Winnowill's changing attitude-- from humans as "pets" who serve her but whom she takes care of and feels responsible for, to humans as playthings and completely expendable? Were there gradual steps along this journey? Will she ever feel remorse for how she treats them now? Or was it only the Hoan G'Tay Sho she ever cared about?
I voted for nuts.
I do, I think she's (quite) a few dreamberries short of a full bush, probably because of her time at Blue Mountain. Her healer's gifts lay fallow, her life was unchanging and the only thing there that did change were her human "pets"-- they aged quicker, were a different change for her otherwise stagnant life.
When Cutter tells the tale of Madcoil, he talks about the magic of the High Ones laying still and going bad like stagnant water, and I think Winnowill is very much the same way. There was no real life for her.
I don't think she's evil; I think she liked having control over her life, and when the Wolfriders showed up, she was already too far gone to be helped. I think she took the last leap long before the "showdown" with Leetah on the staircase cliff way back in Original Quest.
[quote:1a58e9073c="Rjjspesh"]I know this is one of those questions when, like, on the "Simpsons" all the nerds gather and ask 'Lucy Lawless' "Why where yuou riding a horse of this colour when clearly you were riding a horse of this colour in another scene...." etc etc..
... if Winnowill is of Blue Mountain, why is she unable to fly?
I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I thought maybe I missed something.[/quote:1a58e9073c]
[quote:1a58e9073c="Songflower"]I was thinking recently about why WW can't fly, and came up with the same reason: her evil pulls her down.
However, for reasons of storytelling, I think that like Timmain (we see Timmain try to fly one time and then NEVER again, IIRC), WW would just be wayyy too powerful if she could fly in addition to everything else she can do.[/quote:1a58e9073c]
Think about it... If Redlance is a treeshaper of the Wolfriders, why aren't the rest of the Wolfriders treeshapers as well? Every elf has their own powers and sometimes there are more than one that has the same power. If Cutter could shape trees like Redlance, heal like Rain, see far like Scouter, analyze the stars like Skywise, use axes as well as Treestump, shoot arrows swiftly as Strongbow, throw spears perfectly as Pike, levitate like the Gliders, fight fiercely as Go-Backs, swim underwater like the Wavedancers and go "out" like Savah.... Then there would be no need for any of other characters except Cutter, would there? ;)
P.S. Winno-wicked rocks
Welcome back post-Scrollshards everyone!
A big hand and shoutout to Elfpop Richard and his tech crew for bringing everything that they could back. It had to be a ton of work and you all well deserve a long rest (just watch out for those Preserver webs ). But, like in the end of Shards the High One can't pull it all back together by himself. It takes the heads, hands, and hearts of all of us: elves, trolls, wolves, Preservers, and yep, humans too! We've been shaken a bit and we've lost things we may never recover, still memories and good feelings they bring us never truly die. And with the more memories we create, the stronger and longer the Scroll grows, in love and friendship.
So, let's get back to posting! :D :D :D
My take on the enigma of Winnowill:
She might be easily written off by some as a one (or two) note character, or as ambition run amok, but to me there are so many facets to the chilly gem that is Winnowill I could probably write a whole paper on her. She's probably the 2nd most dynamic mover and shaker in the entire Quest (behind Cutter). Things happen around Winnowill (though she fights tooth, nail, and stiletto-sharp mind to maintain her version of status quo). I can admire her yearning to elevate elves beyond the mundane and unnecessary limitations of life on Abode. Yet, I equally disdain her self-destructive binges of revenge-seeking, misanthropy, and sensation lust for its own sake. She has so many gifts that she herself has squandered, but it's ultamitely her misuse as stock villainy by many writers that saddens me the most and led me to pick "Just Drawn That Way" in the poll.
More later from me on this...
A happier version of her (by way of a Manga request)
You caught them very well - and in splendid colors! Ah ... I love the mermaid what-if :love:
They could have been a couple that works ... in another universe.
A manga-version of a young Winnowill
MultiMEDEA, your drawing of Winnowill and Rayek is simply gorgeous. I love it
She looks very determind already. Wonderful colors, Wildfire. I love her gown.
The only thing ... I cannot decide will she pet? - heal? - shapechange? this furry thing? ... don't trust Winnowill :roll:
[quote:0bac0034d3="Embala"]She looks very determind already. Wonderful colors, Wildfire. I love her gown.[/quote:0bac0034d3]
Thank you :D
[quote:0bac0034d3="Embala"]The only thing ... I cannot decide will she pet? - heal? - shapechange? this furry thing? ... don't trust Winnowill :roll:[/quote:0bac0034d3]
This made me lol
Here is an old drawing of mine,
a young Winnowill
pretty indeed! good job on that!
so manny awsome pictures!!!just lovely work!
I know I haven't posted in here before, heh, but was listening to this song over and over again by Hall and Oates called Maneater and realized how much it makes me think of Winnowill, the lyrics sound so much like her. Here is the song. Let me know what you think.
I have never thought of it before, but the above picture makes me think of Winnowill as a sexual sadist.
that is very true.
the great difference between the OQ Winnie and the Winnie thereafter is:
"old Winnowill" is cold, unaffected (yeah, and somehow) evil (like on her portray-picture with Tyldak, or the beautiful bathing-scene). Later she's some kind of crazy-laughing mad-man: *stroking white Persian on lap*: "So, Mr Bond, how are you going to survive this?" (pushing red button) (hey, in one scene in Rogue's Curse, she's at least caressing a raccoon!) :?
From the Lovemates calendar
how sad... and id risk it
Now, guess who's MY avatar?
The first Pini elf I ever saw was Winnowill. That happens if you start somewhere in the middle of a series. It was with Voll in the Blue Mountain, and it actually took me a while to get that Winnowill was supposed to be evil. I had no clue just what Strongbow had done, and for all I knew she had good reason.
I could feel for her in the OQ.
I could understand her in SotBM.
And then she went barking mad.
Sigh. I miss good old Winnowill. Bad characters are never so good as when you can understand them.
Return of Arill wrote a wonderful story (as always) about Winnowill with Two-Edge in it, here.
I think that it came in small increments...I have a theory that they both pushed their respective missions to the backs of their minds and were sort of friendly for a while...but you're right; Winnowill would've perceived Smelt as a corrupter of HER son as well as a kidnapper...
IDEA: Smelt might've tried to take Two-Edge with him when he tried to nick the rockshaper, and Winnowill attacked him while trying to 'protect' her son. When Two-Edge raged against her for what she did to his dad, she saw him as ungrateful, polluted by his troll blood...
It does make sense. If she was the overprotective mother, as I believe she was, then it isn't a bad suggestion of what went wrong. Hasn't it happened before in other scenarios, that when someone rebels against their overprotective mothers/fathers, they are locked in?
I also wonder if Smelt took the rockshaper only because he feared how the trolls would treat his son?
You know, a fun role-reversion would be if Smelt kidnapped the boy to the troll domain, and raised Two-Edge as a troll. Or even more interesting, Smelt kidnaps Two-Edge and leaves Door be, Winnowill takes after them, Winnowill gets killed by the trolls, and Two-Edge starts hating his trollside.
I think Winnowill would start out as overprotective/possessive, but once she's killed Smelt and Two-Edge has (likely) proclaimed his hatred of her...the gloves come off. Killing Smelt with her healing powers is probably what finally tipped her over the edge of the Abyss- I think that was the point when Winnowill went completely insane, her mind broken by the act that totally undermined her entire purpose in life.
I think this is why she had such animosity towards Two-Edge later in their lives; she may unconsciously view trolls as the entire reason she is sick and twisted, blames them for what she is, and by extension she hates Two-Edge.
I believe that in some small part of herself, she knows that the blame is hers alone, and she hates herself for everything she's done...maybe hating what she did to Two-Edge most of all, for she mentally destroyed the one person who depended on her for love, acceptance and safety. Winnowill knows what she's done, and the memories are so painful that she wills herself to forget them...kinda like a more destructive 'Now'.
Lol, I just totally went off on a rant, mea culpa.
PMing you with story ideas.
I see that this discussion is rich with fanfiction possibilities.
I think Winnowill (or Hitler or Bin Laden or anybody else you can throw in) is not much different from any one of us. Maybe she is more intelligent than the average human. Certainly she has the advantage of Elf immortality, and so has thousands of years in which to either grow or fester. But barring the most disabled or disadvantaged, aren't we all the product of the choices we make from day to day? How many times have you heard it said of an abusive addict, that he was such a sweet and wonderful husband or son at one time?
So it's possible that one thing or another pushed Winny over the edge (and I still say it was the lack of disposeable diapers, LOL), but I vote for the slow and gradual change that may have manifested itself dramatically. Again, either angle makes for some excellent fanfiction.
I agree that Winnowill's eventual fall was made possible by a gradual accumulation of events, but murdering Smelt with the power that was intended for healing was a major contributor- her choice to kill him in that way totally destroyed her chances of being a normal, selfless healer again.
I probably should have phrased it better; killing Smelt was not THE event that led to her darkness, but certainly contributed a lot. The straw that broke the psychotic camel's back, if you will.
Also, washing diapers without proper cleaning supplies may have contributed. Those things are a beast.
I wonder, too, if she regarded Smelt as little more than an animal. (Subhuman is the word I would use if I were talking about humans.) Certainly she didn't regard him as an equal, but something to be manipulated. This perspective allowed her to justify killing him. Perhaps, after that first kill, everything else was easier.
A great point! It seemed pretty clear that she didn't think of him as an equal...though, to be fair, Smelt probably didn't think of her as an equal either...scary as hell, yes, but in no way comparable to a troll.
Likely she told herself she wasn't wrong for killing him, using his attempted kidnapping and inferior status as justification. And, since Two-Edge was half troll he too became an acceptable target.
Only when she was totally alone did that bothersome little voice in the back of her head start screaming...
omihighones wtf did you dooooo zomhozomhozomho
Smelt was an easy kill, because he didn't fit into any society. His Troll folk probably thought he was dead. We could even speculate that Smelt was chosen for a fool's errand because the Troll King had to find a politically neutral way to get rid of him, for some reason. (Think David and Uriah.) Smelt wasn't a Glider, or one of the human pets. I don't recall that Lord Voll even knew he existed. So Two-Edge was the only one who missed him.
You are right about that bothersome little voice in the back of her head. Maybe she punished Two-Edge, in part, because she cold stifle him more easily than she could stifle the voice.
I like to think, in the most vindictive corners of my rotten little soul, that Winnowill is incapable of forgetting Smelt, as much as she'd like to. His memory lives on in his self-made 'widow', if only to haunt her and undermine her at every turn.
On another topic, I was thinking more about Startear's 'Troll hating Two-Edge' idea...I don't think Smelt would be able to hurt his son in the same way that Winnowill did, and probably wouldn't want to anyway...but his King, however...
Anyway, I think Two-Edge would escape and maybe fall in with some full-blooded elves. Thoughts?
A little off-topic, but have you noticed that those who has removed wolfblood have green eyes?
We saw Winnowill do it to Dewshine's child.
Leetah removed the wolfblood away on Skywise's request.
And in the Kahvi series we are told that Willowgreen II's trickery took away the wolfblood from Two-Spear's tribe.
And all of the strong land dwelling healers have green eyes... I think I'm seeing a pattern here.
I thought she was born with green eyes...now I'm all confuzzled. *Topples. Has a chihuahua land on face*
Also, WEIRDLET (if you ever read this), thanks you YOUR picture I'm slowly starting to really like the idea of shipping AU!Smelt/Winnowill.
Don't judge me.
Oh, bat-dung, I forgot all about Mender! I always confuse him for his grandfather, which is rather strange. Sorry about that.
What does "Winnowill" mean anyway? Is it impossible to translate, like Kureel or Kahvi?
Her name has always meant 'Will no Well' to me.
Of course that's just what her name reminds me of.
I just ignore the 'Win' part...
Of course it could be 'will no(t) win'...
I remember an old discussion - back here or in another thread. There were possible interpretations offered - in example Winnow-ill or Win-no-will.
Easter EggQuest 2014 found
OK, thanks for easing my confusion
Thanks for Vojira to bring this up.
How can it be that with Winnowills long robe and hair, not run in ages manages to outrun from a wolf, even with Moonshade on it's back? I mean, her robe is already in reach, and the wolf is stronger and faster than her!
''Winnowill, who lives in a mountain, somehow managed to outrun (which she likely hasn't have to do in decades) a wolf in that dress and with that hair.''-Me.
This actually makes Winnowill awesome in my mind.
That, and I just love the way she depicted here.
If wasn't so freaking fond of my angry Preserver I'd avi the picture. XD
From the looks of it I'm not the only one that likes the "early" Winnowill better than her later incarnations.
Her narrative seems to have reached a dead end. She can't be more than a "bad dream" for the most part residing inside Rayek, but she can't escape Rayek without becoming a living nightmare for everyone in general.
There are ways out, however. Yes, she can simply be healed and then she's probably gone (to the Palace or some other plane of existence). Or as I would prefer she become the "new but never quite trustworthy ally" - its a commonplace in anime to have defeated former enemies become allies of the hero. She gets a new body and works with Rayek against some new threat. Or finally she is simply destroyed forever, though it would be a shame to end such a great character in that manner.
Having Winnowill as the "not so trustworthy ally" against a new threat is something I would like to see. I cannot imagine a BELIEVABLE way to bring her back to physical life, tho. Best I could envision for her is a mental healing and peace in the Palace.
I would have liked the story to have played out differently. One "what if" would have been for Winnowill to have actually been healed by Leetah in the original story (she could still have fallen off the ledge and all that). Then during the final battle to capture the palace she shows up with the Gliders and kicks serious troll butt. Of course that would have changed everything and it's a moot point.
I wish I could think of a new "Big Bad" for the elves to face but the story has grown and branched out and even mutated so much I'm not sure what that would be.
Let's see what pics will show:
Taking over the "empty shell" of a Human baby is an interesting twist. Might have lead to a very different Winnowill.
And she had a twin sister ... the parents must have wondered alot about their unlikely siblings.
I can't say I got too far in the story, but yes. There was some suspicion about their daughter. It did make Winnie a bit milder though, since she had to grow as an infant.
The dormant Gliders were using their own powers to float around the Great Egg.
I think the novelization of Captives of Blue Mountain states that the reason the stairs are all around inside of the mountain was because of Winnowill and her inability to glide. I'll find the quote for it a bit later.
Winnowill specifically says in KOTBW that because she has learned ol "fly" underwater she no longer needs stairs.
http://www.elfquest.com/comic_viewer.php?fd=/gallery/OnlineComics/KOBW/KOBW08/_Kings of the Broken Wheel - 8_page=1#_24#
Just found a new song by Florence and the Machine called "Breath of Life" from the "Snow White and the Huntsman"' soundtrack.
According to Florence the song is about the evil Queen, but while listening to the song the feeling of Winnowill slowly crept over me. The darkness, despair and feeling of loss that must have been in her mind at the time her powers started to fester, when she realised the Gliders no longer needed her.....the madness and darkness comes creeping.....
I miss Winnowill. I think it would be cool if she could at least show up as a headless ghost.
I found this. The caption said it was teaser art for Final Quest. i have never seen it before.
Looks like Winnowill will show up (with her head still on) :)
Ooo nice I wonder what that is from or will be from!
Interesting! Winnowill "at her best" once again would be a surprise for me, tho.
On the other hand - when Rayek shows up - and he will for sure - Winnowill will be with him.