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Rayek

Rayek

Of the golden eyes and brown skin!

manga

Rats! Willowspring's lovely start on a thread adulating our beloved Brownskin got eaten by the new server.

To sum up: it is resolved that Rayek rocks. He has his flaws but that's probably what a lot of us like about him anyway! Not that we LIKE his arrogance or the mistakes he's made but we like that he struggles. It's so nice to see a character grow.

It was also declared that many of us would like to see him be able to Recognize and settle down (as much as someone as restless for improvement and progression as he is can) with a little family of his own.

I'm going to take a moment here and plug the R.A.S.H. site for some of our newer EQ-groupies.

joselle

oooh....that poll's too good....I can't decide!


btw...did we name names as to whom Rayek should recognize...?

Willowspring

*hugs manga* I think that Rayek should recognize someone... oh... maybe something really weird... How bout Ember.

joselle

dunno how weird that would be....seems a pretty obvious one as far as stirring things up....nothing would piss Cutter off more except perhaps, Rayek recognizing Leetah.......I'd see him more with.....hmmm..... I actually think it would be really interesting if he recognized Savah...... or someone not yet born........

Willowspring

But i think it would be awesome! Cutters rival with his daughter... And can you imagine Rayek's reaction!!! Grin

manga

Joselle: I think we'd made a start on naming names but hadn't gotten very far yet.

Willowspring: *hugs back* I am sorry about your thread getting eaten. As for Rayek Recognizing Ember... well, there's lots of entertainment potential there but not much for a lifemating I think. Their personalities might be made to mesh but not their lifestyles I think. On the other hand, after all the excitement and pain of Rogue's Curse, Rayek may not mind settling down to a quiet Wolfrider existance while he takes a few thousand years to heal.

Of course, now that Blue Mountain has rebuilt itself he'll Recognize Leetah and he and Cutter will finally manage that accord! *snicker* There's a certain poetry about such a situation that has always appealed to me.

joselle

now what would be uber interesting would be a tree mateing/ treeing with Clearbrook and Treestump....two elders to calm down Rayek's restless soul...and they did journey w/ him after Blue Mountain fell..... who knows it could work. That doesn't help the whole recognition thing though, but I'm starting to like the idea! :D

ChristinaRaibert0

And if he Recognized the daughter of Sunstream and Brill? ^_^ When you think about it, she'd be both a strong magic user, a strong-willed lady, but also a delicate woman who the core... and I can't think of anyone else who could keep Winnie at bay!

crescent1325

what if he recognized Chitter when she grew up...wouldnt that put strongbows undies in a twist! although i hope it dont happen!

MultiMEDEA

Had to vote Winnie-poo. Together, their strengths and differences make up too much good story fodder. They are a way more exciting couple than Cutter/Leetah (or Leetah/Rayek). And thier kid together would probably wind up being a Galactic Overlord or something. :mrgreen:

@manga: I know this sounds like a lame excuse I should hand in to my 4th-grade teacher but...the server ate my PMs! (Bad Server! Bad!) Could you resend me your pic and I'll get to work right away.

[Sorry if anyone's seeing a duplicate of this post. I had to re-post it. Posts keep appearing and disappearing like crazy. :( ]

manga

Rayek Recognizing the child of Brill and Sunstream could certainly be interesting. I don't really like the idea of him with Treestump and Clearbrook or Chitter... especially not Treestump and Clearbrook now that I think of it. There are good points to those pairings but they're all mortal. It makes me too sad to think of the family he yearned for for so long dying. Since they're elders, Clearbrook and Treestump would be leaving him much sooner than Chitter would. :(

Leanan

Quote:
manga


Of course, now that Blue Mountain has rebuilt itself he'll Recognize Leetah and he and Cutter will finally manage that accord!



I've been wondering about that... all I know is Blue Mountain turns up in the Jink stories...

How the blazes did that happen, anyways? Sorry, a bit off-topic I suppose...

lunakat

(see above!)

I am that guest!

Elsa

I'm not a big Rayek fan, but he has his good moments.

My favourite, after Venka has told him her dream in Dreamtime: "But I know so little of you Venka, I... I only hope that meeting me has placed no conflict in your heart". It's such a tender, heartfelt moment.

PCoquelin

Errr, sorry, my post was off-topic, so pleeeze go to :
http://www.elfquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3383

Willowspring

yea... with blond or brown hair and bluer eyes... i could see it

emerald

To answer the poll: Well Leetah doesn't "Have his heart" because she has Cutter's. (Yes, yes, even though they used to be lovemates.) I don't think Winnowil honestly ever loved him, so if he recognizes in the future then that special elf will. Wink

JadeOwl

Yeah, I think that if anyone returned his love, they would have his heart. It's like it Romeo and Juliet (sorry, analyzing it in class currently)

At first Romeo is obsessing Rosaline, but once he meets Juliet he forgets about her. Why? Not because Juliet is prettier, or worthier (though she may be) but because she loves him back. He says as much in the play.

I think Rayek would be the same way. Leetah was his friend, Kahvi lovemated him, Winnowill used him, but none of them were in love with him.

C'mon, ladies, this guy is awesome! Give him some lovin'!

crescent1325

you know, Rayek has always been an intresting character. Although i dont like him he has such a duality i feel sorry for him. He can be arrogant, yet caring. Insane yet sane. But i do admit one thing..i much prefer the pre rouges cures Rayek...at least he had some spunk to him!!!

Sofia

I didn't vote because I just can't decide who I want Rayek to end up with (if anyone. Yes, I'm that cruel).

Not Leetha at least. I'd like to think that he got over the idea of seducing her away from Cutter a long time ago. Although I'm sure he still loves her on some level I think he realized long ago that she loves and always will love Cutter. By the beginning of the Shards-war the tension between them seemed to have disappeared (not to say that Cutter and Rayek actually _like_ each other, but they're at least not fighting over Leetha anymore).

Voting "me" was not an opition as he and I wouldn't make a good couple. We'd kill each other before long *smile*

If he Recognizes someone in the future I hope it's someone who's as possessive as he is. Whenever he's been in a relationship he's almost always been the one chasing after his intended mate. Examples: Leetha didn't want to be more than lovemates but Rayek wouldn't quite following her, asking to be lifemates and hoping for Recognition until well after her children's birth. Kahvi wanted a few rolls in the furs, Rayek hoped for a child and perhaps something more. He was ever so overprotective over the pregnant Kahvi. Winnowill...do I even have to say anything? Rayek's head over heels in love with her (or at least he thinks he is, who knows how much of that is pure manipulation gone awry on Winnowill's part) and she claims she couldn't care less about him.

Possible spoiler for Rouge's Curse!


Except for Sherla who was somewhat more "aggressive" but that relationship lasted what, a month, a week? Not to mention that she was human and would have lived to see 60, maybe 80 years if she was really lucky. No ideal mating for an immortal elf.

End spoilers.

Wouldn't it be fun to have him meet (or possibly even Recognize) someone that loves him ever so much but that he's no in the least interested in? Someone that wants them to lifemate and live happily ever after and won't take no for an answer. (Can you tell I'm planning a fanfic?)

Rayek has, at least in my opinion, come a long way since his first appearance. By the end of Rouge's Curse he's realized most of the mistakes he's made during his long life, both the big and the small ones, but something he hasn't seemed to dwell on much is why all his relationships have been doomed to fail. Perhaps if he got a taste of his own medicine he would realize why no one likes a too demanding and eager elf for a mate.

...I need to take a few deep breaths before my next rant (and get to class...) Sorry if this made no sense.

manga

[quote:a2c882ceeb]Wouldn't it be fun to have him meet (or possibly even Recognize) someone that loves him ever so much but that he's no in the least interested in? Someone that wants them to lifemate and live happily ever after and won't take no for an answer. (Can you tell I'm planning a fanfic?) [/quote:a2c882ceeb]

Who? What? When? Where? Want to read it now!!!

I'm just a liiiiiiiiittle starved for Brownskin goodness.

I think your post was good and not ranty. :)

Sofia

Quote:
manga

Who? What? When? Where? Want to read it now!!!

I'm just a liiiiiiiiittle starved for Brownskin goodness.

I think your post was good and not ranty. :)



At the moment the plot of this fic is battling for dominance against several other (mostly Rayek-centric) fics (I'm such a Rayek fangirl...)

I'm having some trouble deciding who to pair him up with. None of the cannon girls seem to work and I fear that if I make up an elfess of my own I risk making her a Mary Sue, which of course would ruin the whole story.

The plot itself will - if I get time to write it - take place somewhere in the beginning of Rouge's Curse (Worldpools like me. A lot. Maybe it's because I'm a good swimmer.) I've got some vague idea of what to do with Winnowill, but we'll see how well that goes. Keeping her around could actually make things more amusing.

*Pushes self back on topic* Okay, done rambling about fanfics. Uhm, must think of sensible discussion topic...

I've heard different opinions on how Rayek has developed as he's grown older. What do you think he's lost/gained personality vise counting from the first quest to the end of Rouge's Curse. Is he better/worse/the same now as when we first got to know him?

manga

Looking forward to seeing what you do, Sofia! :)

I think Rayek is both the same and better. I say the same because I believe the good qualities he shows later were always there. I say better because he's learned to control or surpress his bad qualities. Example: he used to be arrogant as all get out. He still likes to be best at something, to shine somehow, but he doesn't shove it in peoples' faces anymore. (I'm thinking of the scene in the "Brothel" storyline that never got finished where someone compliments him on the heavy things he can lift, even says "You look like you could lift 'em just by looking at them!" and all Rayek does is smile.)

emerald

[quote:2f7912dd6f="Anonymous"][quote:2f7912dd6f="emerald"][color=blue:2f7912dd6f]To answer the poll: Well Leetah doesn't "Have his heart" because she has Cutter's. [/color:2f7912dd6f][/quote:2f7912dd6f]

Actually- it's the other way around. Rayek doesn't have [i:2f7912dd6f]her[/i:2f7912dd6f] heart because Cutter has it. [i:2f7912dd6f]She[/i:2f7912dd6f] could still have [i:2f7912dd6f]his[/i:2f7912dd6f], despite the fact that she's given her own to someone else.[/quote:2f7912dd6f]

[color=blue:2f7912dd6f]Actually I think [i:2f7912dd6f]she[/i:2f7912dd6f] doesn't have [i:2f7912dd6f]his[/i:2f7912dd6f] heart because she doesn't think of him that way anymore and only thinks of him as a good friend.[/color:2f7912dd6f] Wink

joselle

but that's still a bit backward. However she may feel towards him that doesn't necessarily effect his feelings towards her. She will probably always see him as her childhood friend and lover, but I think she will always have his heart in some way because I don't think he'll ever truly "get over" her.

emerald

[color=blue:355adf4ef2]Wait...Joselle I don't get it! I thought this poll asked [i:355adf4ef2]Who[/i:355adf4ef2] had [i:355adf4ef2]his[/i:355adf4ef2] heart. Meaning who loves [i:355adf4ef2]him[/i:355adf4ef2]. I'm really confused![/color:355adf4ef2] :?

joselle

It is who has his heart, but that means who he loves! Like, who his heart belongs to. :P

emerald

[color=blue:9ec89b752e]ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhh!!!

Well in that case....I don't know! Grin [/color:9ec89b752e]

krwordgazer

I'm going to try to do a Rayek piece for you for this month's monthly theme, Manga. :D

I agree with you that Rayek has matured beautifully! Actually, it was after that fight with Cutter that I really saw the real Rayek-- and then went back to the earlier books and saw how all that courage and nobility were really there all along, just hidden under thick layers of pride and arrogance. Rayek seems now to finally have stopped needing to prove himself. Perhaps Winnowill's spirit is just keeping him too busy, or maybe he's finally finding some of the serenity his daughter showed him. In any case, his situation now has forced him to fight against his tendency to impulsiveness, and to think before he acts. His new humility is very attractive-- as is his High One stature! But there'll always be a place in my heart for the younger, shorter, more confused Brownskin. . .

manga

[quote:48db553d33="krwordgazer"]I'm going to try to do a Rayek piece for you for this month's monthly theme, Manga. :D [/quote:48db553d33]

Woot! Looking forward to it. ^_^

[quote:48db553d33="krwordgazer"]
I agree with you that Rayek has matured beautifully! Actually, it was after that fight with Cutter that I really saw the real Rayek-- and then went back to the earlier books and saw how all that courage and nobility were really there all along, just hidden under thick layers of pride and arrogance. [/quote:48db553d33]

I always knew it was there. I saw it in his refusal to allow the animals he hunted to die in terror and pain. It was in his choice to help Leetah heal Cutter. If you watch that whole sequence you'll see that, in addition to assisting in the healing with his magic, it was Rayek who took the injured Cutter up on his deer and brought him to the lodge. Yes he was doing so because he felt he had a debt to pay but isn't it part of a noble attitude to acknowledge such debts and to repay them? No one without courage and nobility would have let Suntop so easily convince him to go after Cutter when he fell into Two-Edge's trap either. He may struggle with "the right thing" but when he knows what it is he'll do it without hesitation. Winnowill may be the best example. Before "Rogue's Curse," before he'd even MET her, he was able to look past Winnowill's actions, see the pained soul within and seek to help her. (For proof I quote from [u:48db553d33]The Secret of Two Edge[/u:48db553d33]. "There is nothing wrong with her desires, only with her methods. When she knows she is no longer alone, her pain will end.")

In some ways Rayek reminds me of Mr. Darcy from [u:48db553d33]Pride and Prejudice[/u:48db553d33], who was "given good principles but left to follow them in pride and conceit." In both cases it took a shaking up to get their priorities back in order but to their credits, they accepted their lessons and made the choice to become better than they had been.

Anarane

The one thing I have noticed in Rayek choosing mates is he always chooses those who think themselves above everyone, no cruelness intended, but Winnowill defently see's herself as powerful, and better then mostly everyone, and in some ways she has that right, but because of this she tends to use people, and then cast them aside, which is what she did to Rayek.

Leetah, who is much better now that she's spent time with wolfriders, when her and Rayek were together she was told all the time that she was needed, and beautiful, and very important to the sunvillagers, which she was, but I believe she let it get to her head, and it made her a bit of a snob, and so she never let herself truely love someone like she did with Cutter. Of course she also fought Cutter, but he was very persistent, and he finally showed his vulnerable side to her, which Rayek would never do at that time...and in a way she felt needed when it came to Cutter.

With Kahvi, she was a chieftess of a great tribe, and love was foreign to her, and something she saw as weakness, so she would of never gave Rayek her heart, plus they were very much alike....both stubborn, and prideful.

Rayek just needs someone who is not like him I guess, but then he may see them below him....of course after all these centuries of traveling he may of changed...who knows, but I do see him as very attractive, and exotic, and even if he doesn't stay with me I would defently share furs with him. ;)

krwordgazer

Good point, Anarene. I think Rayek tends to look for a challenge in lovemates, as in everything else.

manga

If you ask me, Rayek has Relationship Issues that go beyond his difficulty thinking about how others feel. I mentioned something similar in one of the posts in "Rogue's Curse" awhile ago. It's not (at least to me) that he's looking for a challenge in his lovemates. It seems to me that he feels that nobody who loves him easily can truly love him, Ekuar being the exception because, in Rayek's mind, he HAS done something worthy of such devotion. He saved Ekuar from the trolls and I think Rayek believes he has to somehow "prove" himself worthy of his lady-love as well.

I think it goes back to the estrangement with his parents but I've already yammered on about that at length in "Rogue's Curse," so I don't think I'll repeat it here.

Anarane

Yea poor Rayek, he feels that someone has to truely love him in order for him to be with them, it just can't be fun in the furs for him! ^_^

manga

[quote:da6840e6fc]Yea poor Rayek, he feels that someone has to truely love him in order for him to be with them, it just can't be fun in the furs for him! ^_^[/quote:da6840e6fc]

Well I ascribe to the same philosophy so I can't pity him for that! :)

Anarane

Heh, Yes I feel the same way, but sadly we are the ones who get hurt the worst. Perhaps someday Rayek will find someone, I am sorry for those who want him and Winnowill together by saying this, but I really don't think she deserves him, but I am not the author, only Richard, and Wendy have the say in that...^_^

krwordgazer

Quote:
manga

If you ask me, Rayek has Relationship Issues that go beyond his difficulty thinking about how others feel. I mentioned something similar in one of the posts in "Rogue's Curse" awhile ago. It's not (at least to me) that he's looking for a challenge in his lovemates. It seems to me that he feels that nobody who loves him easily can truly love him, Ekuar being the exception because, in Rayek's mind, he HAS done something worthy of such devotion. He saved Ekuar from the trolls and I think Rayek believes he has to somehow "prove" himself worthy of his lady-love as well.

I think it goes back to the estrangement with his parents but I've already yammered on about that at length in "Rogue's Curse," so I don't think I'll repeat it here.



Has anyone (except Ekuar) ever loved Rayek easily? I agree that he may distrust those who might, and so never lets them get close enough-- but it seems to me that he also enjoys the challenge of loving the "unattainable woman," whether it be Leetah or Winnowill. The fact that the lady's love isn't easy to attain seems to pique his interest and keep him striving for it. Just as the fact that the Palace could fly, if he could only figure out how, is part of what made him so interested in being Master of the Palace.

NightAngel

Anarane

Is that Rayek on your arm?

NightAngel

Yeah that's Rayek, but not my arm haha ..that's just a piece of carbon;)

manga

Cute pic, NightAngel!

[quote:5111fe3eb2]Has anyone (except Ekuar) ever loved Rayek easily? I agree that he may distrust those who might, and so never lets them get close enough-- but it seems to me that he also enjoys the challenge of loving the "unattainable woman," whether it be Leetah or Winnowill. The fact that the lady's love isn't easy to attain seems to pique his interest and keep him striving for it. Just as the fact that the Palace could fly, if he could only figure out how, is part of what made him so interested in being Master of the Palace.[/quote:5111fe3eb2]

I don't think Rayek trusts anyone to be interested in him for himself. According to the novelization of JtSE, Rayek's comment that "any maiden here would say yes!" to him, while unabashadly glowing, was not unfounded. In the JtSE he went on to say he had no desire for some adoring bit of thistledown who would cringe at his every glance. (The JtSE also made a big deal about the odd, serpentine quality of his eyes that only Leetah (one figures Savah as well and Suntoucher would've been immune) could bear without quailing. How fun that must have been, to grow up with parents who can't look you in the eye.)

So Rayek was Big Man on Campus but felt that the girls were swooning for what he could do instead of who he was. A girl who doesn't swoon obviously presents an interesting puzzle and enticement to him.

On a slightly related note, I've been wondering in if Savah's word from "Full Circle" had anything to do with Rayek. While Suntop was struggling with becoming the Elfin Grape Vine she said "Suntop must make peace with the robe he is meant to don. But-- without the freedom to try on other garb...he never shall." I know I'm obsessed, but she looked sad and thoughtful, the way people do when they're thinking of a similar person or situation. Earlier, Suntoucher had said that Suntop had grown up knowing that one day the elves would depend on him. "Any young one," he said, "would tire of such a burden." The Sun Villagers had depended on Rayek from such a young age. Where Suntop and Ember were fighting Winnowill the second time, Rayek was all that was standing between the Sun Villagers and slow starvation. So I wonder if Savah was thinking of Rayek when she made that comment.

krwordgazer

True, Manga-- even if Savah wasn't thinking of Rayek, the comparison is an apt one.

I agree that merely having a maiden not be overawed by him must have been intriguing and even comforting to Rayek. But what of Winnowill? In her madness she can't be truly interested in him for himself. So what's the attraction there? Is it some awful psychological self-fulfilling prophecy? Or is it the challenge of trying to win her true love? Or both?

manga

Quote:
krwordgazer

True, Manga-- even if Savah wasn't thinking of Rayek, the comparison is an apt one.



Thank you. It's always good to know I'm not just reading things in.


Quote:
krwordgazer


I agree that merely having a maiden not be overawed by him must have been intriguing and even comforting to Rayek. But what of Winnowill? In her madness she can't be truly interested in him for himself. So what's the attraction there? Is it some awful psychological self-fulfilling prophecy? Or is it the challenge of trying to win her true love? Or both?



{soapbox}
I think Rayek's focus on this relationship isn't so much about what she does for him as about what he hopes to do for her. I don't mean the challenge aspect either, though I'm sure there something of it in there. It's not Leetah who is Winnowill's mirror; it's Rayek. They are alike in a soul deep, fundamental way. He understands her in a way no one else does. He has been where she is. He can't leave her there any more than Cutter could leave Skywise in Blue Mountain.
{/soapbox}

krwordgazer

Well and profoundly put, Manga. I must say I agree with you. :)

manga

Does anyone have any thoughts about where the story of Rayek, Ekuar and Winnowill should go? Or where they'd like it to go?

[size=7:26cc35d668](Me, I say Winnowill gives up her evil and goes to "live" with the spirits of the other Gliders. Then, Rayek and Shen-shen Recognize and have twins. Ha! Ekuar will be such a happy grandaddy.)[/size:26cc35d668]

Nowth

I would like to see Rayek become a legendary figure among humans, or at least spend some time among them.

Those of Rogue's Curse are advanced/relaxed/enlightened enough to allow for some strangeness in their midst, and Rayek and Ekuar are bound to attract curious natures. Scientist, for example; philosophers, artists, and certainly "gifted" humans.

Conversely - I'm not quite sure why elves as a whole are still so un-curious about humans. Maybe human creativity and ingenuity do not compare to elfin "perfection" - but if even Winnowill could be moved by Hoan G'Tay Sho songs, then there's hope yet for five-fingered painters, composers, inventors or poets.

Humans ruining themselves to please powerful, immortal, unbearably beautiful elves...

Shuna's little outrages and her insecurities were relevant and interesting.

I happen to think Rayek might enjoy a good debate with "alien" intellectuals, once he's found a few worth taking seriously.

An exchange. More about how humans and elves are different, less about who's better. Narmean?

Who knows, he might take up quantum physics, or participate in an attempted scientific deconstruction of magic. (The EQ universe seems to work like that. Shimmer, Jack-ups...)

Still I do see him as passing through rather than settling down; maybe looking for elfin companionship (assuming the 'Final Quest' takes place before Rogue's Curse)...

Just can't see him with a family, though. I don't know. It's not mandatory anyway.

valkerie

[quote:82b1c2fa59="Willowspring"]*hugs manga* I think that Rayek should recognize someone... oh... maybe something really weird... How bout Ember.[/quote:82b1c2fa59]

Okay I did this a while ago while I was wandering through the great and distant land of What if I tend to wander there alot. I didn't take alot of time with this one so please excuse the fact that its a little rough, also this only the second picture that I have ever done of Rayek..that I can think of
[img:82b1c2fa59]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/valkerie/EmberandRayekcol.jpg[/img:82b1c2fa59]

manga

Wow. Their coloring is so striking together!

Anyway, I want to see Rayek with a family because HE wants one so much. I'd like to see how Wendy solves the puzzle of making him content without seeming to lose that spark. I think he would have a great time playing mad scientist and trying to work out how magic works. That's one of his more un-elvish qualities I think. The elves don't seem very curious but Rayek likes to know things.

MultiMEDEA

[quote:3fcfd5af59="manga"]Does anyone have any thoughts about where the story of Rayek, Ekuar and Winnowill should go? Or where they'd like it to go?[/quote:3fcfd5af59]

I have thoughts on that very subject that I'll either develop into its own story or dovetail it into my Aurek stories. (Yes, I really am still working on it, today even! Wink )

CrescentElf

It would shock me if he recognized Ember, since she's the daughter of his lost love. That picture is so pretty Valkerie...they [b:3ebd200713]Do[/b:3ebd200713] look good together, scary to me as that is, I recall a certain snowball fight, and that just gets me all giggly, from the first quest.

There would be good and bad sparks there...lol

Nowth

[quote:6ef256d4b0="manga"]Wow. Their coloring is so striking together!

Anyway, I want to see Rayek with a family because HE wants one so much. [/quote:6ef256d4b0]

He doesn't really exist, so what he wants doesn't matter :P

(Ok-- I do make exceptions for characters that are dear to me. I mean-- I do want EQ populated by the Interesting Ones.)

No, turns out I'm not against Rayek with a family, but the devil's in the details and "let him recognise <whomever>" alone means relatively little, story-wise. This is what bothers me every time some character's or group of characters' future is discussed: that Elfquest might eventually be about the optimisation of its own fictional world, rather than addressing issues meaningful to someone who's never picked it up before.

[quote:6ef256d4b0]I'd like to see how Wendy solves the puzzle of making him content without seeming to lose that spark. [/quote:6ef256d4b0]

Yes, exactly that.

I want EQ to benefit from his Rayeky qualities, not necessarily from his happiness. (Sorry.)

No, it's not unhappiness I want to see - I just want to read something relevant. Pairing everyone off isn't relevant all by itself, although I suppose there'll be no shortage of drama at least in a Rayek-Ember recognition or some such clashery...

And somehow I like the idea of him wandering forever. But if family and/or being content can be woven into the plot without effectively removing the plot potential of Rayek's insatiable, curious nature ...no problem.

[quote:6ef256d4b0]I think he would have a great time playing mad scientist and trying to work out how magic works. That's one of his more un-elvish qualities I think. The elves don't seem very curious but Rayek likes to know things.[/quote:6ef256d4b0]

As does his passenger, no? Except she can't manage not being twistedly sensual about it in some fashion. Yeah, ...so she's drawn that way.

manga

Hey hey hey! Look what I found in Wendy's Sketchbook! Food for thought (and hopefully discussion): This is the initial description of Rayek. How well do you think it fits the Rayek that we see in the comics?



"He finds a place among the snow-elves who are are more like him in nature than the Sun Folk."-- There's one that I think went by the wayside! I suppose if the Wolfrider's hadn't come by and the War for the Palace hadn't happened then Rayek could have spent awhile content among the Go-Backs. But I think their unending disdain for magic and their colder, harsher society are in the end too antithetical to all he holds dear. I think he's more of a figher than the Sun Folk (hard not to be!) but not as much of a fighter as the Go-Backs. Fighting is something he's willing to do-- and to do well-- when necessary but for the Go-Backs it's a way of life and I don't think Rayek could ever fully accept that.

(Addendum: I love the idea of Rayek with a pet hawk. Such a striking image!)

NobleAtrocity

Okay, so be warned... apparantly i have a lot to say :oops:

I for one would like to see Rayek recognize, but i don't think that has to be the end of the "interesting Rayek". For one thing i think he deserves a clean recognition (i'm still not all that sure about what happened between him and Winnowill when they first met, but it sure seems hinky to me), and a ah... er... kid (lost the word i was thinking of, blonde moment sorry).

I think he should recognize someone that complements him in a similar way that Joyleaf complements Bearclaw. Someone that can just laugh off his attempts to be too controlling, give him the proverbial pat on the head and "yes dear" and not be bothered by it. But she would do it in such a way that, instead of being angered, he would be left bewildered (and baffled?) by her approach to handling him. She would be someone that understands him and accepts him in a similar way that Ekuar does and doesn't try to pressure him into any kind of mating or parental role, or even pressure him to stick around. But she wouldn't do this out of some misguided submissiveness to his will, she would carry on her life and share her bedfurs where she will, but she would always (mostly, don't want to be too convenient) be available for him when he comes around. She's too smart to wait around for him and besides, there are so many other bedfurs to share Wink .

Of course their relationship will by no means be all smooth sailing. I can see him resenting her sharing her bedfurs with others when he's not around, and although she does a good job of deflecting his possessiveness they'll still have arguements about it. She'll have to put her foot down about keeping some personal space, to keep the relationship equal at the very least. Of course some of the strife would be caused by his mixed and confused feelings pulling him around. And she would definitely have to know how to carry on a good fight, she would just be less belligerent about it than Kahvi was.

I think they should not lifemate, or at least not right away. But Rayek will definitely be thrown off by her. After consumating the recognized urge i think he won't be able to entirely shake her from his subconcious. She'll be just the right combination of attentive and aloof to draw him back again without making him feel tied down, and definitely leave him off-balanced by the whole thing, which of course will bug him no end.

I can see him wandering off for a decade or so, then wandering back and being amazed at how she still makes him feel just a tad confused about his reactions to her.

I know that Rayek would probably be possessive of any projeny of his, as was seen with Kahvi when she was with cub (if neither of them are wolfriders, is the child still a "cub"? Wink ). But for some reason, either outside pressures from other tribesmates, or his confused mix of emotions for her (like the bewilderment), or her innate capacity to be safe and motherly making his presence redundant, he will be driven to deny an overly protective role over her and the cub. But he won't give up a certain sense of "ownership" (for lack of a better word) for her at least while she's with the cub, and for the cub while it's still young. Along those lines i think that he'll end up being a tad estranged from the cub while he's confused about the mother... maybe the same way he was at first with Venka although for different reasons? I know he wants a kid, but i can see him being the type facing off with a young-un and not knowing what to say to the little ankle-biting creature that's suppost to be his. The word that comes to mind is "perplexed" :) .

Well, er, i think my inspiration is winding down. Which is probably a good thing considering the novel i just wrote :D . But i think i would be happy if this happened to him. It gives him recognition and a child, and a small sense of contentment in at least a small part of his life, without taking away the parts of him that make him most interesting. And this way he can still go off and have some fun adventures :D . I also like ongoing background storylines, just a bit here and there to keep you wanting more...

manga

That's an interesting take on it, Noble Atrocity.

For my part, I'd like to see him Recognized to someone who can be just as devoted to him as he to her. I can't see him being happy in that maybe-maybe not family you suggested. As a lovemating perhaps, with no Recognition involved but the thought of him wandering away from a mate a child (a) is totally unlike him and (b) makes me cry. Family is forever, not for convenience. (Totally my take on things I know, but I know Strongbow and Moonshade would agree! :) )

Rayek is not the one who feared being tied down; it was Leetah. To my mind, Rayek WANTS to be be connected and he would be very hurt by a Recognized who saw him as nothing more than an occasional bedfellow. To have known his soul and to treat the bond of Recognition as nothing more than a new "flavor..." That would be a very bad Recognition experience indeed and not at all clean.

I like the idea of a Joyleaf too, just one who is as close to him as Joyleaf was to Bearclaw. Rayek's possesiveness came from a fear of loss and lonliness. I think a lifemate he doesn't have to always chase would be better. Think of all the couples who are solid couples-- Nightftall and Redlance, Mooshade and Strongbow, Treestump and Clearbrook and even Leetah and Cutter. No one is "submissive" to the other's will but they make good teams. I want Rayek to have a good teammate.

I hope they have a child as active as Chitter... c'mon, I'm sure everyone wants to see Rayek driven to distraction by a totally exasperating child. <g>

Foxeye

I definitely don't think Rayek would lose his edge if he had a recognized lifemate. Doting is definitely a cousin of possessiveness. He'd be amazing as a possessive, devoted, "all or nothing" partner. Especially if the woman was the sort that didn't chafe at that, despite having her own sort of calm strength.

The only thing I'm worried about is that Winnowill would almost definitely screw things up. Just consummating recognition without mishap would be a b*tch, and Rayek would probably (poor tortured soul) send his recognized away immediately, or flee himself, so that he couldn't be a source of harm to her or the child.

I also think that a recognition to a wolfrider would be bad mojo, if only because he would have a hard time coping with knowing she would die on him someday.

Trollbabe

I can't respond to the poll because I think Rayek's first love will always be Rayek.

I think it is a pity that Rayek and Leetah never had a child together, in or out of Recognition. Their relationship may have been doomed, but it would have been nice to see their offspring.

NobleAtrocity

Quote:
manga

For my part, I'd like to see him Recognized to someone who can be just as devoted to him as he to her. I can't see him being happy in that maybe-maybe not family you suggested. As a lovemating perhaps, with no Recognition involved but the thought of him wandering away from a mate a child (a) is totally unlike him and (b) makes me cry. Family is forever, not for convenience. (Totally my take on things I know, but I know Strongbow and Moonshade would agree! :) )


I agree she and he should be just as devoted to each other, but i think an outside influence, like Foxeye's bringing up Winnowill's interference, would get in the way of them just settling down and being a happy lazy couple (we must have an interesting story after all Wink ). I can also see him resisting a lifemating in the beginning. I believe his past experience with Winnowill would make him a bit wary at first.

Not all recognized couples feel a desire to lifemate with those they recognize, Dewshine and Tyldak i'm sure wouldn't have wanted to even without the political (for lack of a better word) and genetic differences getting in the way, but in the end they at least respected each other. I think with Rayek it would be somewhere in between Dewshine and Tyldak, and Cutter and Leetah. He would see his recognized in a different light, but he wouldn't be addicted right away. Her presence would have to worm it's way into his heart. Remember that as much as he seems to yearn for a family, he is still a loner, and quite used to it. I think that he would fight happiness at first because contentment would be so foreign to him.

And i know he wouldn't leave his child until it was at least almost an adult... but eventually Winnowill, or whatever else, would drive him away in the geographical sense. Which would not necessarily have anything to do with his feelings, i just thought it would be interesting if he has a hard time getting used to her in the sense that she's different from the others he's had relations with. He's so used to either chasing Leetah around because, as you said, it's her that doesn't want to be tied down... or chasing Kahvi around because she's stubborn and heardheaded and doesn't want to consider a word that comes out of his mouth in regards to her. *pause to take a breath*

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manga

To my mind, Rayek WANTS to be be connected and he would be very hurt by a Recognized who saw him as nothing more than an occasional bedfellow. To have known his soul and to treat the bond of Recognition as nothing more than a new "flavor..." That would be a very bad Recognition experience indeed and not at all clean.


I didn't mean to imply that she would not value the bond... though i see it did appear that way the way i worded it. She would just understand that, for whatever reason (again possibly Winnowill, that reason seems a good one to use at the moment :) ) Rayek would find it difficult to just settle down to tribe life and she would accept his decision to wander off and on. But at the same time, i don't think that she would just sit waiting around for him to occasionally return. As we've seen, not all lifemated couples stick only to each other. I think that, at least during his wanderings, that their relationship might possibly be the same. I agree though that, once he was able to accept her fully as a lifemate, their relationship would most likely exclude others.

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manga

I like the idea of a Joyleaf too, just one who is as close to him as Joyleaf was to Bearclaw. Rayek's possesiveness came from a fear of loss and lonliness. I think a lifemate he doesn't have to always chase would be better. Think of all the couples who are solid couples-- Nightftall and Redlance, Mooshade and Strongbow, Treestump and Clearbrook and even Leetah and Cutter. No one is "submissive" to the other's will but they make good teams. I want Rayek to have a good teammate.


I agree that he shouldn't have to chase her around, but because of his possessiveness, as you said, being caused by fear of loss, she would have to be someone that was a bit "cool under pressure" to balance him out. If she were even a little clingy, i think that it would only work as negative reenforcement. He would have to learn someday that he doesn't always have to fear being alone, and i think that he would recognize someone who would be able to help him with that, even in an unconcious way.

You're right about the submissive part. I just see Rayek as being so overpowering in nature sometimes that it can be easy to be "run-over" by him unless she's as tough as Leetah or Kahvi. In my statement about her not being submissive i was trying to get across that she would be a strong willed woman like them (again one of the parts where i didn't express myself very well :roll: ) And i agree with the rest :) .

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Foxeye

I also think that a recognition to a wolfrider would be bad mojo, if only because he would have a hard time coping with knowing she would die on him someday.


Yeah that would be a bit hard for him to accept wouldn't it? Although who knows, it might give him new respect for the breed if his offspring was one of them. Though his lifemating with his recognized would most likely not happen :( .

krwordgazer

Quote:
Foxeye

I definitely don't think Rayek would lose his edge if he had a recognized lifemate. Doting is definitely a cousin of possessiveness. He'd be amazing as a possessive, devoted, "all or nothing" partner. Especially if the woman was the sort that didn't chafe at that, despite having her own sort of calm strength.



I agree completely with this. I think Rayek would be bored by a clingy, doting woman-- everyone he's ever been in the least interested in has been a strong, challenging partner. What he needs is someone who will not be put off by his intensity but will run with it and be just as intense back. A person who is strong in her own right but loves him unconditionally. To such a person he could, and would, give his all.

I disagree that Rayek's first love is Rayek. Rayek's first love is challenge, accomplishment. To someone who will challenge him and yet love him in return, he could soar to heights we haven't imagined.

As to whether this would make a good story-- of course it would! :D (But for this to happen, the Winnowill problem is going to need to be dealt with once and for all. I for one don't want to see him in agony for any longer than the length of the agony Cutter suffered. More than that would violate the rules of poetic justice.)

NobleAtrocity

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krwordgazer

I think Rayek would be bored by a clingy, doting woman-- everyone he's ever been in the least interested in has been a strong, challenging partner. What he needs is someone who will not be put off by his intensity but will run with it and be just as intense back. A person who is strong in her own right but loves him unconditionally. To such a person he could, and would, give his all.


I agree with that... add that to my opinions voiced in my unending tirade on the subject :) .

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krwordgazer

I for one don't want to see him in agony for any longer than the length of the agony Cutter suffered. More than that would violate the rules of poetic justice.)



Are you referring to Winnowill, or recognition? If you're referring to recognition, i agree. If you're thinking i meant that he would suffer from unconsumated recognition, then no, that's not what i meant. If you're referring to something else and i'm imagining things, then feel free to let me know :D .

manga

I think Krwo was drawing a connection between Cutter's 512 years of waiting and the suffering Rayek's undergoing as Winnowill's prison. I gotta agree with Krwo about the poetic justice too, especially since by my count that means resolution should be near!

krwordgazer

Yes, Manga and Noble Atrocity, that is indeed what I meant. :)

NobleAtrocity

I certainly hope it is. My feelings that he has suffered enough even outweigh my urges to kick him in the behinder.

krwordgazer

I don't know why I put off doing this for so long, but here are links to my numerous Rayek stories. His complexity tickles my muse. :D


Mirror Images - This explores the period from when Rayek left the Sun Village, through the point when Cutter arrived in the Frozen Mountains. It switches back and forth between Rayek's and Cutter's points of view in an attempt to highlight the way these two characters seem like reverse mirror images of one another.

Two Choices - This is a [i:75a6ec39d9]very long[/i:75a6ec39d9] what-if, answering the question of what might have happened if Kahvi, at the critical moment, had chosen to reveal Venka's existence to Rayek. The ripples of this choice spread outward to completely alter the elves' history on the World of Two Moons.


Then these are two Rayek stories Manga has up on her Rayek Admiration Society for Humans (R.A.S.H.) Website:

The first offers a look at the Wolfriders through Rayek's eyes, during the year he lived with them before the War for the Shards:

[url=http://darkhuntress.com/rayek/stories/rayeks_interlude.html]Rayek's Interlude[/url] This story also explores Rayek's past and what led to some of his most terrible mistakes. It ends with an encounter with a Winnowill-created monster!

The other is a Rogue's Curse story, in which it is shown how Rayek and the humans he encounters might be able to help one another.:

[url=http://darkhuntress.com/rayek/stories/change_of_face.html]Change of Face[/url]


And one more, on this forum:

[url=http://www.elfquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3017&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tribe+switching&start=30]Angry Young Glider[/url] - Part of the "Character/Tribe Switching" thread, this story explores how things might have been very different if Rayek had been born a Glider, fairly early in Blue Mountain's history.

Nowth

[quote:4528743fbe="krwordgazer"]This story also explores Rayek's past and what led to some of his most terrible mistakes. [/quote:4528743fbe]
And it is more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters, "Where Rayek Went Wrong", "Some More of Rayek's Greatest Mistakes", and "Who Is This Rayek Person Anyway?" :P

Sorry, brain danced the association jig

krwordgazer

Nowth, you! (gives Nowth a gentle slap on arm) Grin

MultiMEDEA

No Douglas Adams allusion is ever wasted. :mrgreen:

manga

*snicker* Nor should it be! ^_^

Nowth

Re: "Ask Elfmom"...

...

sigh

krwordgazer

Yes. Doesn't Rayek realize that this only makes us care more than ever? :(

Foxeye

:crying:

Poor Rayek.

Did anyone else think when they read this...

[quote:88b38e927b]Rayek replies: There are no plans...and no reason to make them. If hope there is, it has naught to do with tomorrow.[/quote:88b38e927b]

..."Agh, he's going to steal Enterp- err, I mean, the Palace, to go back in time and get leetah to heal Winnowill for real!"

I mean...if hope is not in tomorrow, then maybe it's in "yesterday". *cheeky smile and duck* (I've been watching way too much Star Trek:Enterprise lately, and they can't stop fricking messing with timelines. Drives me batty.)

Weirdlet

He has changed. And I agree- it doesn't seem like he'll ever be entirely what he once was, and if he did turn out perfectly fine somehow it'd feel false, pat.

Doesn't stop me from hoping that someday he gets to love a little closer and find a little happiness. Even if it's just a sort of worn-down, Groundhog's Day sort of contentment.

Tavestry

AskElfmom about Rayek was just heart wrenching. My sympathy goes out to him. (And to Manga because I'm sure that was hard to read.)

So...does this mean Rayek's story is over? Will he just fade away into the shadows of ElfQuest?

manga

Ack! I've been hoping for an "Elfmom" about Rayek (beyond that brief first one). I must go see it now!

{edit 1}
*comes back*

*sits rocking in a corner hugging her knees* Nononononononononono...!

{edit 2}
There HAS to be a plan, curse it! Wendy MUST have something in mind, she can't just LEAVE it like that. Personal obsession aside, this is too good, too big a story element to let go. I won't let her! *Mounts a Rescue Rayek campaign*

{edit 3}
(has finally read everyone else's comments.)
Aww, thank you for thinking of me Tavestry.

For my part, I have an absolutely AWESOME story in mind to rescue Rayek and Winnowill both but don't think that Wendy and Richard would think it fit in their universe.

{edit 4}
My husband points out that asking WENDY what her plans are is different from asking Rayek, who sees no hope. And we all know how WARP likes to mess with our heads. So all hope is not lost. (Rayek will be saved if I have to go into Wendy's head and dig him out myself!)

As for her comments about not seeing the brash Sun Village Rayek again... Good! I liked him and I do miss him but he has grown in so many ways and changed so much. I want a happy, or at least peaceful, ending for him but not one that wipes out all those changes.

Tavestry

[quote:b9e8202907="manga"]{edit 3}
(has finally read everyone else's comments.)
Aww, thank you for thinking of me Tavestry.[/quote:b9e8202907]

Don't mention it. As soon as I read that, I thought of you. *hugs* I know how much you love Rayek. You've made me see past...The Act (tm) to see the poor conflicted elf beneath it. Thank you.

[quote:b9e8202907="manga"]
{edit 4}
My husband points out that asking WENDY what her plans are is different from asking Rayek, who sees no hope. And we all know how WARP likes to mess with our heads. So all hope is not lost. (Rayek will be saved if I have to go into Wendy's head and dig him out myself!)
[/quote:b9e8202907]

Oooooh! Good point! Wise man, your husband is! [/yoda]

NobleAtrocity

You people are a bad influence on me, Rayek was never one of my favorites before... :? Wink




His response on 'AskMom' hurt me.

Satiretto

[quote:4646d1dfcb]Did anyone else think when they read this...

Quote:

Rayek replies: There are no plans...and no reason to make them. If hope there is, it has naught to do with tomorrow.

..."Agh, he's going to steal Enterp- err, I mean, the Palace, to go back in time and get Leetah to heal Winnowill for real!"[/quote:4646d1dfcb]

Yep, the thought crossed my mind, too, Foxeye - if there's no hope in tomorrow, let's see if we can find some in yesterday ;-). But I suppose Rayek as he is now would (hopefully?) be above desperate time-travelling attempts. Although I must admit I somehow like the idea...

[quote:4646d1dfcb]For my part, I have an absolutely AWESOME story in mind to rescue Rayek and Winnowill both but don't think that Wendy and Richard would think it fit in their universe.[/quote:4646d1dfcb]

Manga, that sounds intriguing - can you elaborate? Or is it still top secret? I would definitely love to hear more about that :-).

manga

[quote:7bb459aba1="Satiretto"]Manga, that sounds intriguing - can you elaborate? Or is it still top secret? I would definitely love to hear more about that :-).[/quote:7bb459aba1]

I don't know. It's a storyline that has made itself near and dear to my heart recently but I rather doubt its reception here. I think I'd rather keep it a surprise. However, you have a small hint in your mailbox!

Thank you, Tavestry and Noble Atrocity. It's always good to know someone else can sympathize with Rayek. Not everyone has to be as... um, devoted... as me (nor should they be) but there's more to him than The Act(tm) and I'm glad when others can see past it. :)

*ponders* I wonder if Wendy is going to declare all the Brandon McKinney "Rogue's Curse" to be "Worldpool." In the last issue things actually seemed to be improving... the scary and hopeless picture she showed us in "Ask Elfmom" indicates something else entirely.

NobleAtrocity

[quote:e7e85782ae="Satiretto"][quote:e7e85782ae]Did anyone else think when they read this...

Quote:

Rayek replies: There are no plans...and no reason to make them. If hope there is, it has naught to do with tomorrow.

..."Agh, he's going to steal Enterp- err, I mean, the Palace, to go back in time and get Leetah to heal Winnowill for real!"[/quote:e7e85782ae]

Yep, the thought crossed my mind, too, Foxeye - if there's no hope in tomorrow, let's see if we can find some in yesterday ;-). But I suppose Rayek as he is now would (hopefully?) be above desperate time-travelling attempts. Although I must admit I somehow like the idea...[/quote:e7e85782ae]
Actually this never entered my mind. Of course that probably has to do with the fact that i tend to miss the obvious sometimes, and at others am hopelessly mentally stuck "in the box".

What i thought of when i read that is more along the lines of: "There's nothing that can be done to change my lot, and no reason to look forward to the future. If there was something to be done to change my condition, that opportunity has already passed and been lost. There will be no more opportunities, and resistance of that truth would be futile."

(get it? "enterprise", "resistance is futile"? teehee... :roll: )

...Anyway, that of course lead to the obvious idea of time travel that all of you caught on to but me, heh. But the tone of his response leads me to believe that he's not considering that, at least not with any plausability.

krwordgazer

I agree. I think if I were (High Ones forbid!) in Rayek's position, making plans for any kind of future would only be a further torment.

He's just trying to make it through, one moment at a time.

manga

I'm with Wordgazer and NA's first impression. He said "There are no plans." Stealing the Enterprise and going back in time would be a plan.
(Besides, if he were going to do anything like that then what he should do is go back and make sure Leetah's healing of Winnowill in "SatBM" didn't get interupted.)

Tavestry

[quote:51291b2351="manga"]I'm with Wordgazer and NA's first impression. He said "There are no plans." Stealing the Enterprise and going back in time would be a plan.
(Besides, if he were going to do anything like that then what he should do is go back and make sure Leetah's healing of Winnowill in "SatBM" didn't get interupted.)[/quote:51291b2351]

But can't someone help him out as he is now? It's heartbreaking knowing that he's stuck like that forever! Even my vengeful "YOU MUST PAY FOR HURTING CUTTER!!!!oneoneelventyoneWTFBBQ!!" is cooled in the face of living with Winnowill for ever!

Is Winnie completely without redemption? Do I have to write a fan fic in order to soothe my offended fan girl?

manga

Oh do, Tavestry, do! If nothing else than to tide us poor, sad fans over until whenever Wendy does finally finish that story.

manga

This is sad! There are more post's in Lutei's thread than in Rayek's-- and Lutei barely exists! *pout*

joselle

Then let me pose a hypothetical question: one that I've been thinking about a bit lately.

Sunstream and Rayek are both phenomeally powerful magic users, and they are both not really definable in their powers: not a glider, rockshaper, healer...ect. So (given that Sunstream, and possible Rayek, haven't reached their full power...) who do you think is the stronger of the two?

crescent1325

Honestly ...i think its Sunstream. he did things at five years old that rayek only dreamed about at 600..

manga

But all Sunstream seems to be good for is being the elfin AT&T or maybe psychic broadband internet.

Rayek meanwhile can fly, shield himself and others, throw energy blasts, stun and time-travel. Rayek, hands down.

BTW, Crescent1325 that's a lovely avatar.

Tavestry

Sunstream

Because he doesn't have the Migraine From Hell (read: Winnowill)

Now Rayek at his most cocky (read: Filled with the energies of the dead Gliders) would hand poor little Sunstream his butt. Of course he was Suntop then and suffering from a severe case of toddler hair.

>_O

*fights...urge...to....write...revisionist...fan...fiction.*

random question

What's the name of Rayek's High One ancestor?

MultiMEDEA

All props to Rayek and the things he can do, manga dear, but frankly I don't think we've yet seen an inkling of all that Sunstream can do. He's just not the flashy type. :D But I believe he's the one that will ultimately come to have the greatest communion with Palace and its energies, effectively making him 'Master of the Palace. Tho that's probably a misnomer, because the Palace doesn't really exist to be mastered. A lesson that Rayek never quite learned because he has yet to master himself.

joselle

Pretty sure that'd be Haken. Looked exactally like the HighOne version of himself that Rayek imagine with Winnie long ago.

Lady_Door

Actually, with all the interbreeding with the first few generations, if the high ones stayed together, all the high ones are all the elves' ancestors. The only ones that have a different ancestor would be the wolfies/gobies.

Oh... I'm in a really weird mood...

manga

Obsession for obsession's sake:

In "Cry From Beyond," when Rayek has offered to take Suntop and the Palace to the strangers, Cutter and Leetah look at each other before refusing. What did the look mean? Wondering whether to take him up on the offer? Or debating whether or not to throw Rayek's childlessness in his face (not in intent but in effect), given that Treestump and Clearbrook must have told them about his beef with Kahvi?

And then there's Leetah's comment about Rayek's love requiring more strength than Suntop has and Suntop wearing himself out to please him. Gentle explanation? Or twisting the knife? Or gentle explanation well meant but twisting a knife anyway?

Gazelle

Probably the last, one I imagine, though she must have meant well...

krwordgazer

That look was standard lifemates-consulting-each-other-about-the-kids. My husband and I look at one another like that whenever someone proposes to take our kids somewhere-- a sleepover or whatever. A quick gauge of one another's initial reactions. :)

Leetah's response was meant gently, but yes, she was twisting the knife. However, she was telling the truth, and her first obligation was not Rayek's feelings, but protecting her son. I did feel for Rayek very much, though. Unhappy


Who is stronger? Hmmm. . . instinctively, I feel that Sunstream will be more powerful than Rayek ever thought of. I think Rayek feels that way too-- in KotBW he said something like "if only the High Ones could have met [i:14c47b6684]you-- [/i:14c47b6684]one whose powers this world could not drain!"

I think Rayek saw Suntop as someone to pass the torch too, whom he fully expected would someday surpass him.

I really wish the Rayek-Suntop relationship could have blossomed into a mentor-pupil relationship. It would have been so good for both of them. But of course, given the water under the bridge, it could never be. Unhappy

manga

[quote:3c8784fc57="krwordgazer"] Leetah's response was meant gently, but yes, she was twisting the knife. However, she was telling the truth, and her first obligation was not Rayek's feelings, but protecting her son. I did feel for Rayek very much, though. Unhappy

[/quote:3c8784fc57]

Eh, I feel she'd protected her son enough by scotching Rayek's plans to take him himself. She was fully justified in that. But adding that bit Rayek's love "requiring strength to bear" was just nasty and rubbing salt in a wound. "No, we don't want our son taken from us. I -- who have known you all my life and who you cared for repeatedly when I was young -- think you'd be a terrible father anyway." Why the heck wasn't "No, we want to to stay with our child" enough of an answer?

Kitt

[color=green:efdf0615f0]Because Rayek would have wanted to know why she told him no. And, when she mentioned the needing more strength than he had, Rayek understood becuase he tried to force such love out of Leetah before. She could not give it to him and knew that he would demand no less of her child than the capacity of love he wanted from her. :)[/color:efdf0615f0]

manga

I'd still think that "No, we want to stay with our child" would be enough of an answer, especially for someone so torn up about the birth/death of his own child.

Or would they really have cheerfully handed off their suffering little 8-year old if Strongbow, Zhantee or Clearbrook had been the one to ask?

Kitt

[color=green:4095d91a30]I think at that time the only person whom they thought capable of handling their child at that time was Savah :([/color:4095d91a30]

manga

Kinda my point. She didn't need to tell Rayek "Oh, and I think you'd be a bad father," if she simply didn't want to let anyone else parent her child. "No. We are his parents and we want to be with him" is enough of an answer for anyone. (Except maybe Winno-wicked.)

Kitt

[color=green:b71712395e]But Honey, she didn't say he was a bad father. He never had the chance to show what kind of father he could be. But, as taken from the time she spent with him, she knew that his care was not what was best for Suntop at that time. Moreover, she didn't know that Rayek had gone through the thing with Kahvi and Venka's supposed death. I'm sure if she knew that she might have worded her statement a little differently. Still, as she loves, truly loves Rayek, she would never say anything to intentionally hurt him :([/color:b71712395e]

manga

I never said I thought it was intentional. Ugh. I hate that scene. It's so painful. Unhappy Rayek's LIFE is so painful... come on Wendy, give us some resolution!

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