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Wolfrider's family tree SPOILERS!!

RedheadEmber

:-p

Thornbrake

Great family tree @Zinegirl!

ChristinaRaibert

@Zinegirl - awesome family tree! What software did you use to make it?

Zinegirl

ChristinaRaibert said: awesome family tree! What software did you use to make it?

Thanks! I used Adobe Photoshop CS5 :)

Embala

Good to have the link back. Would be a pity when your great job gets lost here, Zinegirl!

Tynami

Seeing this tree again after all the updates makes me think to make a pixel doll version... I've got a ton of them done, but no time sadly.

Woodling

I would really like to know more about how the wolfriders relate to each other. It is such a small tribe, their family trees has to have more crossing lines than what we know today. It would be so neat to see it all the way back to Timmain... And who they all come from - each and every one of them... !

Embala

It would be great ...




... until you discover that nothing is left for imagination anymore. ;)

Yes, I'd like to know a bit more about character linage and relationships ... but definitely not about each and every one of them. Just my two cents. :)

Heather

Embala said: Yes, I'd like to know a bit more about character linage and relationships ... but definitely not about each and every one of them. Just my two cents. :)

I wouldn't either. It would take away the mystery. It's the not knowing that is great. And I doubt we will ever know it all as well. There is no reason to hem in the story telling by putting it all out there.

RedheadEmber

I'd like to know something about Rainsong's and Pike's mothers.
I've pretty much decided that in my head canon they were in a three-mating with Rain. Because, you know, I like three-matings...

Zinegirl

I updated my tree with Ahdri's heritage :)

RedheadEmber

Cool! Who's the one between Alekah and Tekshu? I mean... we don't actually have the identity, we just know it's a male...

Zinegirl

RedheadEmber said: Cool! Who's the one between Alekah and Tekshu? I mean... we don't actually have the identity, we just know it's a male...

I got his picture from this scene:
Schermafbeelding 2014-03-12 om 21.53.30
I just assumed it was her son, sitting next to her.

RedheadEmber

Aaah. Cool!

Mkal

There is one thing that I noticed. In the BoTC novels, Rellah's daughter, Willowgreen and Two-Spear's lovemate, Wilowgreen are two different people.

Zinegirl

Mkal said: There is one thing that I noticed. In the BoTC novels, Rellah's daughter, Willowgreen and Two-Spear's lovemate, Wilowgreen are two different people.

That's right, but Rellah was the mother of both Willowgreen and Willowgreen, wasn't she?

Mkal

No. Talen had even made the comment when Rellah said "She is just a child."

He replied, "Yes, but she is not your child."

In the chapter "Riders of the Storm in the final BoTC novels, Willogreen even thinks to herself, I never knew Rellah's daughter was a healer when I came to her and asked her to be taught.

Rellah treated her like her child because she never got over watching her Willowgreen killed in front of her by the long-tooth.

Zinegirl

Can someone confirm that Kree/Kreanne is Owl/Graywolf's mother?

Also, how about this: I read on a site that Pike got his (violet) eyes from his mother, and Brightwater is known to have violet eyes (like Moonshade, her confirmed daughter, also has.) Could she be Pike's mother?

Tam

She could be, perhaps, but if Brightwater was Pike's mother, I think we'd know, since that would make Moonshade his sister.

RedheadEmber

Mkal said: No. Talen had even made the comment when Rellah said "She is just a child."

He replied, "Yes, but she is not your child."

In the chapter "Riders of the Storm in the final BoTC novels, Willogreen even thinks to herself, I never knew Rellah's daughter was a healer when I came to her and asked her to be taught.

Rellah treated her like her child because she never got over watching her Willowgreen killed in front of her by the long-tooth.


Besides; if both Willowgreen's had been Rellah's wouldn't Rellah have been quite unimaginative? Naming both her daughters the same?
Then again; didn't Rahnee name all her children Brighteyes at first?

Mkal

@RedheadEmber: Rellah's daughter's real name was Darrel and she took on the name Willowgreen to be more like the 'wolf-blooded ones', as Rellah put it. I am not sure if the second one knew of the first one when she chose her name.

RedheadEmber

Aah, of course. Rellah weren't exactly fond of the 'wolf-blooded ones', were she? Would've been rather strange for her to give her child a "wolfrider name".
Thanks for that @Mkal.

Zinegirl

I updated the tree again with a few more children of Timmorn, I removed Rellah and made seperate 'blocks' for the Wavedancers and Savah :)

Rob

This is an amazing thing. I wonder if it could be made interactive.

Mkal

@Rob that would be KEWL

Zinegirl

Rob said: This is an amazing thing. I wonder if it could be made interactive.

Thanks! :) Interactive would be fun, but I have no idea how to do that

By the way, if anyone thinks that someone or something is missing from this tree, please let me know!

jorenm93

Hi! I'm new here!
I'm impressed with your family-tree, but I have a few questions.
Who the hell is Kreanne? Never heard of him/her :P I always thought Samael and Frost Greywolf and Owl' parents?

And I see that you're also adding "speculations". Maybe you can add that Shale is the son of Rain and Clearbrook's daughter (saw an interesting thread about this).
Some sources also say that Clearbrook's "unnamed daughter" is called Moth.
One-Eye would be the son of Owl and Fernhare. Fernhare has another child: Greentwig, with Glade
I read that Rellah is Eldolil's mother (not sure)

Zinegirl

@jorenm93 Kreanne or Kree is apparently a daughter of Zarhan and Rahnee. I also came across that second possibility (Samael and Frost) but sites often contradict each other (one site says that they are Owl and Graywolfs grandparents?) and knowing that Graywolf is Two-Spear's cousin, Kree seemed more plausible to me.

I consider Shale's theory too unlikely, same goes with Moth, we basically know nothing about Clearbrook's daughter and I think it's just a fan-name. I've googled Fernhare and some sites say that he sired Longbranch, not One-Eye. Can someone confirm this?

I don't think Rellah is Eldolil's mother. I'm considering adding her as Timmain and Earth's daughter, though.

jorenm93

Maybe you can change Sust's father in Skot? I always assumed it was him, because Sust had serious difficulties to befriend a wolf-friend (Skot was not born as a wolfrider...)

Zinegirl

jorenm93 said: Maybe you can change Sust's father in Skot? I always assumed it was him, because Sust had serious difficulties to befriend a wolf-friend (Skot was not born as a wolfrider...)

We just don't know, so I prefer my solution. I think he does have a wolf-friend know, by the way. ;)

jorenm93

I googled Samael and Frost, and I think you're right about Owl and Graywolf. Samael and Frost were their grandparents (so probably Kree's parents?). In your tree, you can add Dreamkeeper/Samael (changed his name) as Frost's lifemate.

I also think you're right about Rellah's parents. + I think Willowgreen (both of them) were Rellah's daughters

At least 3 sites say that Timmorn had a daughter with Kaslen (yay! another child of the high-ones): Echo

I found Zarhan's father!! The same sites say it's Enlet (who's the son of Seeree and Menolan

Mkal

@jorenm93 Only one Willowgreen was Rellah's daughter. The first one, whose name was Darrell, died from a long-tooth attack. The second Willowgreen made Rellah think of her lost child and she looked over her like she was her own, but Talen would remind her that she was not her child. In Willowgreen's own reflections about Rellah, she never refers to her as her mother.

jorenm93

@Zinegirl; I just read the Wolfrider's Guide, and there it is confirmed that Zarhan's father is Enlet :)

jorenm93

Ice has a child with Rushwater: 'Plenty'

Zinegirl

jorenm93 said: Ice has a child with Rushwater: 'Plenty'


I read on another site that Plenty was the child of Snowflower and Badger?

jorenm93

But this was said in the Wolfrider's Guide :P an official publication, so...

jorenm93

Look here (from the Elfquest forum):
http://elfquest.com/forums/discussion/7647/soulname-list/p1

Embala

*grrr* stupid bug ... this link should work

http://elfquest.com/forums/discussion/7647/soulname-list/p1

jorenm93

I don't get it :P? What was wrong with that link?

Embala

Have you tried your own link, @jorenm93? It leads right back to this page. When you use the "link icon" it works wrong ... it's bugged. It's on @Rob's repair list.

For now it works when you simply copy/paste the address in the text.

jorenm93

Ok, I see it :) thanks

jorenm93

@Zinegirl
Another thing you can add is Journey, child of Timmorn and Selnac (BOTC anthology 1)

jorenm93

Btw, is it ever confirmed that Threetoe is actually Timmorn's son?

jorenm93

Rellah and Sharpears have an unnamed child (BOTC anthology 1)

jorenm93

Wreath is Samael's grandchild (BOTC1), so in your tree, you can add Samael's son as Wreath's father

Zinegirl

Added Echo, Kaslen, Enlet, Menolan & Seeree.
Adding Wreath's (grand)parent is gonna be tricky, so I'll save that for later.

jorenm93

Yeay :D the tree is growing!!

Embala

I like to watch the growth ... and I love your cooperation with this.
Good contributions, jorenm93! Great job, Zinegirl!

Delhya

I know we don't have a name for the child yet? But I did not see Door and Dodia's recognition is not on that tree. ^_^

Embala

Actually this child was called "NoName" by Chot and Jethel in the FIRE-EYE story arc. But these stories are most likely non canon. Whether there will be confirmed knowledge about the fate of Dodia, Door and the cub only the High Ones know.

Zinegirl

Door and Dodia themselves aren't even on the tree ;) I don't think I'll ever add them, since it's only the three of them I can tie together and they're not very important characters either

travelbug

In Blood of ten chiefs vol 2: Wolfsong, is says Wreath is Laststar's daughter, from recognition with an unknown father from a different tribe, grand daughter of Timmorn and Valloa/Murrel, niece of Rahnee

jorenm93

@Embala, yeah, I recently started reading the BOTC anthologies, so with every new character, I checked the family tree :)

Delhya

Awww Every character is important in a story : ( no matter how small their roll. If that story arch ever did/does happen officially, it could have been Shen Shen or Yun that recognized Door instead of Dodia. I do love your hard work on the tree. I have a printed tree from an old geocities site from 97 that does not exist anymore. So I was happy someone else made one.

jorenm93

I came across something... Somewhere in the anthologies, it's said that Nightfall's mother is Amber... Who is she? Is she the same person as Brownberry?

travelbug

Amber is not Brownberry. I dont think she is mentioned in any of the comics, only in the blood of ten chiefs novels, in the bridging stories. At least, I can't remember seing her drawn anywhere.
The novels were written long before the Wolfrider comics which confirmed Brownberry and Longbranch to be Nightfalls parents.

jorenm93

@Zinegirl; I think you have a lot of trouble to fit in Teir's parents :P?

RedheadEmber

jorenm93 said: @Zinegirl; I think you have a lot of trouble to fit in Teir's parents :P?


Ya think?

Delhya

Maybe not. Move Shale and Eyeshigh in another spot since they are independent of everyone else on the tree and pop his mom down there as a double picture, a little weird since she'd be in two spots but hey it seems to work okay in my head. I wonder what his sister will think of having a little brother? Left out names in case of spoilers for someone.

RedheadEmber

What do Shale and Eyes-High have to do with fitting in Teir's parents?

Tam

Nothing to do with Teir, but Shale and Eyes-High aren't connected to anyone else but each other, Skywise, and Yun. If they were moved, that's potential space for Teir to go, since Windkin and Ember are already right there in the image. Then gotta solve the Kahvi connection problem.

Delhya

Yep Exactly @Tam

Zinegirl

Delhya said: Maybe not. Move Shale and Eyeshigh in another spot since they are independent of everyone else on the tree and pop his mom down there as a double picture, a little weird since she'd be in two spots but hey it seems to work okay in my head


I don't like double pictures :c I'll just rearrange the whole damn thing.

I think I'll disconnect Moonshade from Mantricker, since that theory is just a rumour after all, and move Tyleet and her family to the right, providing space for Kahvi and her heritage.

Edit: Here is the updated tree! (Spoiler alert! Contains spoilers for Final Quest #5.)

jorenm93

Nice!

Delhya

Very Nice!!! What program do you use to do this out of Curiosity?

Zinegirl

Delhya said: Very Nice!!! What program do you use to do this out of Curiosity?


Thanks! I use Photoshop ;)

Embala

Awesome job, Zinegirl! *bows* It's great you share and keep this up to date.

Zinegirl

travelbug said: In Blood of ten chiefs vol 2: Wolfsong, is says Wreath is Laststar's daughter, from recognition with an unknown father from a different tribe, grand daughter of Timmorn and Valloa/Murrel, niece of Rahnee

jorenm93 said: Wreath is Samael's grandchild (BOTC1), so in your tree, you can add Samael's son as Wreath's father

Now what is it? :p Or is Samael's son the one from a different tribe?

And thanks for all the compliments by the way :D

jorenm93

I don't know the first one, but the second quote is said in BOTC1

RedheadEmber

Zinegirl said: Now what is it? :p Or is Samael's son the one from a different tribe?


Seems like it.

Tam

The first one is BotC 2, as stated. ;) Since all the BotC novels are iffy on canon status, I think it's probably best to leave Wreath's parentage alone, or list possibilities under the blank squares for her parents.

travelbug

as BotC1 says one thing, and BotC2 says another, I think we should ask @RichardPini to shed some light at it.
I think of the BotC canon until Wendy and Richard or the comics says otherwise.

In BotC1 it's briefly mentioned that Wreath had a good memory as she was the grand daughter of Samael Dreamkeeper. (I did reread fast it just now, and actually missed where its written)

The story in BotC 2 says that Rahnee's sister Laststar disappeared from the Wolfriders for sone years, and then one say came riding back on her wolf, with Wreath in front of her.
Laststar said she recognized an elf from a different tribe.
When Zarhan went looking for Rahnee, and found her with Tricksters Clan, he noticed facial resemblence between Wreath and Cheseri and Merolen. This suggests Wreath's father came from Tricksters Clan.

For the record, the recognition with Wreath was the only recognition that ever bothered Zarhan. He actually decided to never give in to recognition again, unless it was Rahnee.
That promise made him manage to delay the recognition with Cheseri for 10! years.
He may have delayed it even longer if the tribemates hadn't in the end forced him to agree to fullfill recognition with Cheseri.
(I find that part of the story more uneasy than the recognition with Wreath)

Zinegirl

Hm, thanks for the information!

By the way, can anyone confirm that Rushwater is the daughter of Cat, as said on this site? And that Kree/Kreanne is the mother of Windwhisper?

travelbug

Kree is only mentioned as a small cub, as far as I remember.

Rushwater was mate of Ice, but I dont remember reading she was Cat's child.
Car left the tribe with her mate and child.
Rahnee and Zarhan's children seem to be born far apart.

Tam

I only consider in BoTC what's written by Richard to be canon, personally.

travelbug

We are both entitled to our opinions,Tam :)
The ones written by Richard are the best ones, for sure :) English isn't my first language, but I feel like to language is more poetic and expressive and the storytelling better than the other stories.
But the other authors also put time and energy into their work, and I feel its sad to say as a fan: nah, dont believe it..
I'm assuming Richard were profreading. (One slip in one sentence is human)

If Zinegirl should decide to base her family tree exclusively on Wendy and Richard's stories, she would have to delete a big part of it..

RedheadEmber

travelbug said: For the record, the recognition with Wreath was the only recognition that ever bothered Zarhan. He actually decided to never give in to recognition again, unless it was Rahnee.


Wait... wait... Zarhan recognized Wreath? I thought it was Prey-Pacer. Or did they both?

Zinegirl

I think Cheseri was meant.

Tam

No, Zarhan Recognized Wreath. Right after Wreath Recognized Prey-Pacer. Which bothers me greatly, because it makes no sense. Supposedly, the Recognition to Prey-Pacer "didn't take" after like, five minutes (/hyperbole), and then she went and Recognized Zarhan.

travelbug said: We are both entitled to our opinions,Tam :)
The ones written by Richard are the best ones, for sure :) English isn't my first language, but I feel like to language is more poetic and expressive and the storytelling better than the other stories.
But the other authors also put time and energy into their work, and I feel its sad to say as a fan: nah, dont believe it..
I'm assuming Richard were profreading. (One slip in one sentence is human)

If Zinegirl should decide to base her family tree exclusively on Wendy and Richard's stories, she would have to delete a big part of it..


*chuckles* It's just my opinion. :) I don't mean to say Zinegirl should base things off of my view of things...just that that's how I view things. :) And when there are direct contradictions in these stories, she'll have to figure out what to do about them...that would just be my method.

I also don't view the way I read the non-Pini-written stories as sad. I just view them like any other Worldpool story. King's Cross didn't actually happen...it's still a good story, but it's not canon. With respect to the BoTC novels, I'll more readily accept what's written by Richard as strictly canon; the other stories, for me, I would consider more like legends, which can often be warped and exaggerated through time. Doesn't mean they aren't good stories...I just don't necessarily believe that they're 100% true to Elfquest history.

RedheadEmber

Tam said: No, Zarhan Recognized Wreath. Right after Wreath Recognized Prey-Pacer. Which bothers me greatly, because it makes no sense. Supposedly, the Recognition to Prey-Pacer "didn't take" after like, five minutes (/hyperbole), and then she went and Recognized Zarhan.


But... if the Recognition between Prey-Pacer and Wreath "didn't take", then how does that explain

Embala

Either Skyfire is Zarhan's cub ...


... or this special story is not canon.

("BotCs novelizations are canon as long as they don't contradict the comics." - not the exact quote but in this sense.)

RedheadEmber

If Skyfire is Zarhan's cub... then she's Two-Spear's aunt and not his sister...
Though... doesn't one of the comics (the 'Two-Spear' ones I think it was) depict Two-Spear as a boy going to see the birth of Skyfire, because she was the daughter of Prey-Pacer... so unless Wreath lied... or... Wreath somehow Recognized both Zarhan and Prey-Pacer, and Skyfire is the daughter of both.
Then she's her own aunt...

Thornbrake

Tam said: With respect to the BoTC novels, I'll more readily accept what's written by Richard as strictly canon; the other stories, for me, I would consider more like legends, which can often be warped and exaggerated through time. Doesn't mean they aren't good stories...I just don't necessarily believe that they're 100% true to Elfquest history.


Yeah, this is exactly how I view them too.

travelbug

The frase "The novels are canon unless otherwise stated in the comics" does apply for the story about Prey-Pacer and Wreath, as their recognition is a part of the story in the Two-Spear comics.

RedheadEmber

Just some random thinking that popped into my head.

Sharpsight. It's pretty much implied that he's an ancestor of Scouter, because of his looks and, in particular, skills. The question is how would Sharpsight be the ancestor of Scouter? Let's have a look at what we know:

1: Scouter is the son of One-Eye.

2: One-Eye is the Brother of Longbranch/Longreach.

3: Longbranch is the son of Owl (at least I think he is...)

Longbranch can't be a descendant of Sharpsight because he's an adult during the Starring Contest. As far as I can see there are three options

A: One-Eye is the half-brother of Longbranch, same mother but not the same father. (this is probably true anyway, doesn't seem like Owl is even around during the Starring Contest...)

B: Scouter is the descendant of Sharpsight through Clearbrook.

C: Scouter is not actually the descendant of Sharpsight because Sharpright isn't actually a 'real' person but just someone Pike made up, possible because there'd never been an interesting Recognition.