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Trolls in the EQ universe: Troll appreciation and advocacy

Trollbabe

Hi! I am new to the EQ forum, and it has been some years since I dug out and read my old EQ comics - buried somewhere under various inherited housewares and documents. One thing has bothered me since reading the story (what issue of what series?) in which the elves and trolls discover and read the Scroll of Colors. Everybody accepts it as Gospel truth -- trolls decended from "groundling apes" or some such rot, trolls were pets or servants of the High Ones, everyone came from the same used-up planet, etc. History is written by the winners, as the saying goes, but has anyone really looked up the Troll side of the story?
The upcoming book has elves trying to cope without Troll-forged tools and weapons. Isn't it time the elves got up off their undernourished, fornicating butts and took Metal Shop I and II?

Sincerely,
Troll Babe

woebringer

Darn right! those pesky elfs need to get a grip and stop that annoying questing and come help me build dies and molds and fixtures :twisted:
given that a number of my coworkers have been killed on the job the experance would thin the tribe. (see Grinder accident) :twisted: :twisted:
it would go some thing like this...

Skwise: whats this for? AAAAAAAHHHGUHKK!...
Cutter: NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

PCoquelin

Hey Trollbabe ! Want an av' ? :



( The Avatar dealer )

Welcome aboard !

See you ?

scarlettdoll

welcome Trollbabe!

Good point! (funny too) Grin

Zebula77

Welcome, Trollbabe (love the nick, heh).

scarlettdoll

ok Trollbabe! You should go now to the Fanfic forum and check out "Elvin Magnet High". There's a new little blurb just for you! :D

woebringer

Transformers vs elfquest is good too. :twisted: Grin
as well as elfquest flash movie. Grin

Trollbabe

Hi! Trollbabe again. Please pardon me, as I am new to this whole forum thing. When I was a cub, we had stone computers on which we carved our e-mail.

I am trying to attach the Oddbit avatar to my messages and haven't figured out how to do it. I wish my cousin Skintag were here because he is a technical genius. He is busy establishing a new underground kingdom, possibly his third or fourth, with a complete water and septic system, an extensive mushroom farming co-op, three combat arenas, ample parking and a Montessori school. He keeps getting interrupted by the elves upstairs, who try to barter for food because they haven't grasped the concept of winter storage. Remember the fable about the grasshopper and the ants? This is more like the blood-sucking mosquito and the ants.

I have recently gotten an e-mail from a couple in Indiana who are seeking advice on a unique problem. Any tips, readers?

Dear Trollbabe,
Our property features a magnificent red oak which is rumored to have been planted to comemorate the end of World War One. The "Armistice Oak" has been photographed and written about numerous times by our local garden club and historical society. For decades we have contracted a reputable tree service to maintain it, and to repair any storm damage.
After nearly a century of good health, our beloved oak has fallen victim to an infestation of nocturnal elves. These creatures don't recognize property lines, noise ordinances, litter laws or rules of common decency. The only thing they "recognize" is each other, at all hours of the night, within earshot of the neighbors. They think that cats are a delicacy and cars are for target practice. They don't appear to have a word in their incomprehensible lenguage for "latrine."
The tree trunk is now marred by gaping holes, and the branches have been bent in odd directions. Exterminators are baffled and our arborist has refused to set foot on the property since the flint-arrow incident. We are at our wit's end. Help!

Alana

Haha, I was just going to start rallying for troll appreciation myself, I've been re-reading my Kings of the Broken Wheel and admiring Picknoses's gusto. Everyone figures out that I love Dewshine, but Picky-Picknose is a favorite as well.

As for the oak tree problem, Trollbabe, I'd get some of those mosquitos that cause hallucinations in elves. They'll be easy to pick off when they're running around in a drug induced haze, after all, leaving the tree nice and safe. :)

PCoquelin

[quote:40297762c0]I am trying to attach the Oddbit avatar to my messages and haven't figured out how to do it. I wish my cousin Skintag were here because he is a technical genius[/quote:40297762c0]
Oh you don't need to be a genius :
click on "Want an avatar ?" below my sig,
go to the last page (or the one before) and follow the instructions I put.

See you ?

Trollbabe

Still not having any luck attaching an avatar. Is it because I am using a library computer?

Sad to say I have just returned belowground from paying my respects to the local elf tribe, on the loss of their chief. He was from a long line of chiefs, but he was a young fellow, and had not been chief for more than two summers.

Apparently he was involved in one of those quaint campfire rituals in which the elves recite their lineage. You know, the chief pricks the palm of his hand and everyone starts naming ancestors. "Go-Long... Pig-skinner... Bryant Bear-kicker... Nay-muth the Skirt-Chaser... William the Refrigerator... Oh-jay... El-way... "

After spilling the Blood of One Hundred Thirty-Four Chiefs and Then Some, the poor fellow collapsed from anemia and never regained conciousness. I didn't stick around for The Howl, as I am not much into what passes for a choral ensemble in Elf-culture. Ear-splitting, to say the least.

Ta ta,
-Trollbabe

woebringer

I too had an eld problem, but by leaving my moonshine under their tree i was able to cut their tree down with a chain saw and haul it down to the saw mill while the elfs were dead drunk! Ol'John at the saw mill said he never heard any thing scream like them elves when the saw got them, not even interior decroator that he had sawed up last week. :twisted:
and if all else fails use a shot gun :twisted: :twisted: Grin

Trollbabe

Scarletdoll, I just found my way to the Elvin Magnet High reference to troll history. I am so glad that principal Skinner, uh, Principal Voll has agreed to teach Troll history! I just hope it is not treated as an entirely different subject with no relevance outside of Troll culture.

Now, if only they would teach those little Wolfrider darlings the basics of indoor plumbing...

-Trollbabe (ecstatic!)

scarlettdoll

Nah, I'll write in a few lectures about Troll/elf relations and trollish contributions to elvin culture. How's that? :D

Trollbabe

From a Troll standpoint, "elvin culture" is an oxymoron. ; ) Oh, well, I suppose that a few Troll contributions, rather than the glorious history of Trolls in the two-moon world, is a start. Admitting that we were here first, and that elves are basically an infestation, is going to take some arm-twisting.

Thanks! : )

woebringer

Troll Smash Elf Friends!


And I'll slash you!

JediWolfSister

*amused chuckle* More from :twisted: The Book of Vile Darkness :twisted: there Woebringer? I must say, I rather like the berserker. Berserkers make me happy. Mmm... Berserkers...

PCoquelin

" I wanna be a Berserker like dad " (Erik the Viking)

woebringer

nope the conan pic i got off of a web sight and the trool fighter i got from savage species 3.5, now you can be the orcs :twisted:

Trollbabe

Who's the artist? I see a signature: SW 02

Kitt

...you know, I think the trolls think that humans are, or at least have the capacity, to be pretty :?

Windwalker

Trollbabe, you are a hoot. You need your own advice column for trolls and humans with elf problems.
My advice about the elf infested tree is that you plant poison ivy around it. See how long it takes before the elves clear out. Unless they have a treeshaper, it shouldn't be long.

Trollbabe

I DO think all of us have the capacity to be pretty!

As far as poison ivy and treeshaper Eves, that is a good note of caution. Elf-magic doesn't always turn out the way Elves, or anyone else, might anticipate. (Remember the "Madcoil" catastrophe? That one really tied up the courts. It was never resolved to anyone's full satisfaction. It's a waste of time to try to sue the estate of dead Elves when, during the course of civil action, what little they own is incinerated by careless humans.) I'd hate to think what a treehsaper would do to poison ivy, as if strangleweed weren't bad enough.

SoftPrettyBigThing

Going back to the beginning post.
It is interesting that the the scroll of colours was written by elves, so I wonder how much author bias there is regarding the troll issues?

The first thing that comes to mind is the portrayl of the trolls rebellion. It seems from the flash backs in 1 and the scroll of colours that the trolls were entirly unreasonable, yet they did consider themselves slaves, so did they ever ask to be freed? and what would the high ones raction have been to that? because if they did consider the trolls as lesser being then they may not have taken them seriously, leaving the rebellion and the crash of the palace as the trolls only option... interesting :twisted:

Nowth

But was it really deliberately written, or did it function as a recorder? On the other hand, if it focused on the elf side of the story then it might not have captured whatever the trolls were thinking or doing when their 'owners' weren't looking...

krwordgazer

I agree-- the Scroll seems to be a recordation of the thoughts and experiences of the High Ones.

I think the irony is deliberate. The story is showing that for all their evolutionary superiority, the High Ones were still capable of error. Though their children pray to them, they are not gods and were never intended to be seen as such.

Ultimately, they brought their own demise on themselves, by not seeing or choosing not to see how far the trolls had advanced, and that the trolls were ready for self-government.

In fact, it occurs to me that Cutter, understanding slavery from his own experiences, was responding in that knowledge when he refused to look at Picknose's people as enemies any longer.

Nowth

[quote:e40a77f887]In fact, it occurs to me that Cutter, understanding slavery from his own experiences, was responding in that knowledge when he refused to look at Picknose's people as enemies any longer.[/quote:e40a77f887]

When did that happen?

innie

Maybe his year of slavery in troll games and soulnames. Or his brief moment of being a slafe when he's captured by Picknose in the oq.
Anyway, I think it's great that the elves responded in that way towards the trolls. Mainly because of Cutter, no-one held grudge against them for being the reason of the High-Ones crash (except maybe for some Go-Backs) Because as wordgazer says, they understood the impact slavery and respression had on what happened.
I think it's normal that the trolls rebelled at a point.

But, as I said, I had expected a few Go-Backs to be furious towards the trolls. I know it's not that reasonable, but they had lost many of their friends/Lovers/tribemates in the war they just had fought and it would be normal if they couldn't see the trolls as anything other than enemies at that point.
On the other side, they had won their war with help of trolls. The Go-Backs rather enjoyed the fight, and their friends died an 'honorable' dead.

Nowth

Troll Games came out around 2002, though?

krwordgazer

Actually, what I meant by Cutter understanding slavery was that his people had been enslaved in Blue Mountain, and he had to get them set free. This knowledge of slavery comes within the context of the original series. And, like the earlier trolls who rebelled against the High Ones, Cutter's people had been considered lesser beings by the "High Ones" of Blue Mountain.

Cutter didn't need to be a slave himself to have felt what his tribe felt.

The other incident, in Troll Games, did occur to me-- but as Nowth said, the story had not yet been conceived at the time the series in question was written. :)

(I hadn't thought about the Picknose-Cutter incident-- but, as Innie said, that was very brief, and not really serious.)

Trollbabe

Quizzed one of my Elf History profs, Dr. Verbena, on the Scroll of Colors. She described it as kind of a "black box", among other things. It recorded the course of the Palace and its original crash contact with Abode. In that sense, it would be a record of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But truth can be interpreted, she went on to say.

Minouche

I just love the way you pass on your wisdom through your humor. Please go on, it's a pleasure to read your posts.

SoftPrettyBigThing

is the scroll of colours psychic? because then its interpretation of events would be 'coloured' by its own point of view, because to be psychic it would have to have a mind of its own, possibly the mind of its creator, or at the very least influenced by them and their values.

Trollbabe

I guess it would have to be psychic, because it would be hard to understand if it were in the original High Ones language.

Will have to run that past Dr. V. She is an expert on Elf history, although she fills OMI's quota for the requisite nutty professor. She is human, but claims to be something like part Elf on her mother's side and part Troll on her father's side, both of ehich are genetically impossible. She does have tenure. Of course, in Troll years, human tenure isn't much.

Trollbabe

One thing has bothered me since I began catching up with the Trolls in Digital EQ. Is there inconsistency in some characters?

Drub develops her courage when she is exposed to Khavi, and is consistently brave afterwards. Maggoty accuses Picknose of being gutless, but he has his moments of glory. The rest of his family is a little confusing.

Tiny Trinket is understandably afraid when she first meets Ember, but she warms up to her. When humans break into King Picknose's tunnels, Trinket seems to have taken on some of Ember's toughness. Years later, she refuses to wield a sword when Drub commands it.

Drub laments the uselessness of the aging Oddbit. While she is ever the prima donna, doesn't she deserve credit for giving birth to a kingdom?

Flam is a bold character in the Shards storyline, although his motives are more mundane than that of the Elves. In "Rogue's Curse", however, he grovels in one scene and begs for mercy in another.

Trollbabe

I'm reviewing the scene I mentioned in the above post. It's in EQ Vol. 2 Issue 3, the opening of the "Wild Hunt" installment.

I noticed Queen Drub telling Trinket, that maybe the need for self-defense will "weld" a sword to her hand. This means the Trolls had developed the technology of welding ferrous metals, at this point in history.

TrollHammer


I'm reviewing the scene I mentioned in the above post. It's in EQ Vol. 2 Issue 3, the opening of the "Wild Hunt" installment.

I noticed Queen Drub telling Trinket, that maybe the need for self-defense will "weld" a sword to her hand. This means the Trolls had developed the technology of welding ferrous metals, at this point in history.



The vision Im getting is fairly graphic...

Part of forging is hammer-welding, a process of melding two heated metals into one peice. This can be two dissimilar alloys (such as mild steel and high carbon steel), or the same metal, such as when a sword blank is folded. While the most labor intensive, when done right this welding process can be the strongest welding technique, as it blends the two metals together over large areas, instead of "modern" welding process, where a tiny spot on one peice is melted to another. In modern process, if the two alloys are too dissimilar, microfissures can form and the weld or surrounding material can become brittle or crack upon cooling. The more traditional process can blend a greater range of alloys, allowing a "sharing" of the traits of all alloys being hammer welded.

A good blacksmith can "spot weld" (in this case I am not referring to the inferior human technique of pinching sheet metal together with electrical current) two pieces of a broke part together without excessive heating of the rest of the piece.

I find great humor in literal translation of the statement, and a bit of the philosophical in the concept... A welding of sword and steel in the mush that Trinket had become would create a new character, diverse in the attributes of both.

RedheadEmber

Tiny Trinket is understandably afraid when she first meets Ember, but she warms up to her. When humans break into King Picknose's tunnels, Trinket seems to have taken on some of Ember's toughness. Years later, she refuses to wield a sword when Drub commands it.




I believe Trinket might've acted both from a desire to protect her papa, and also in a strange way from the innocent of a child who didn't realize that what she did was "wrong".

Later, when she was living with Drub's group, she would've had the notion of real ladies don't wear swords grilled into her so much she would object against it.



I personally like the trolls, a few bad eggs excepted!

Djun

I was always rather fond of Picknose and his family, easily setting him up as favourites, same as some of the elves. Maybe it's the many features they share with dwarves, another fantasy favourites. Tongue

Embala


One thing has bothered me since I began catching up with the Trolls in Digital EQ. Is there inconsistency in some characters?
Inconsistency or developement?
Inconsistency in the characters ... or in the intention/interpretation of different artists/authors?

Drub develops her courage when she is exposed to Khavi, and is consistently brave afterwards. Maggoty accuses Picknose of being gutless, but he has his moments of glory. The rest of his family is a little confusing.
Drub found someting that met her ambitions - and followed her new ways consequently. She clearly prefers to be Queen - instead of King's favorite and (possibly) the power behind the throne.

Maggoty and Picknose ... for me it was always sort of the "mother-in-law" cliche:
You guy are not good enough for my little darling! (no matter what you do and how successful you are)
On the other hand this was probably Maggoty's way of "gentle" encouragement. Wink And ... well, Picknose was not the brightest of Trolls, I guess ... he had to learn and develope alot. Though - being not so bright and not so ambitious might have saved his live during Greymung's reign!

Tiny Trinket is understandably afraid when she first meets Ember, but she warms up to her. When humans break into King Picknose's tunnels, Trinket seems to have taken on some of Ember's toughness. Years later, she refuses to wield a sword when Drub commands it.
Actually Trinket's behavior is very plausible for me.

Little Trinket is a Princess, spoilt by her parents, used to get her will and do what she wants. Ember is a Princess, too - not so spoilt but used to reach her goals, too. Ember is older, comparably independant ... both a role model and a rival.
Little children learn by imitation - it's rather normal that Trinket tried out the benefits of new ways. And there was the effect of "All what you do I can do as well!"

When Little Trinket was returned to her parents after millennia she was spoilt ROTTEN. Picknose was overhappy to have his treasured first child back. And Oddbit ... Trinket was possibly the first little one she could take care for centuries (how long can Troll women be vertile?). Trinket was her little doll - and someone she could transfer all her meanwhile lost dreams of beauty and glamour.
Trinket learned that she only had to flutter her eyelashes to get whatever she wanted. A comfortable way of life, being admired and wooed as a bonus. Why should she suddenly change her stradegies ... only because a much younger, boyish and unattractive sister says so? (Excuse me - I try to see Drub with Trinket's eyes!)

As much as it was in character for Drub to become the active, self-reliant leader it's in character for her sister to be the manipulative, self-centered beauty.

Drub laments the uselessness of the aging Oddbit. While she is ever the prima donna, doesn't she deserve credit for giving birth to a kingdom?
Hmm ... don't know enough for a proper own judgement.
This lack of respect ... makes me think of the general disrespect young adults sometimes show against their parents, especially when they have chosen a very different way of life.
Oddbit is the prime example for everything Drub denies - hard to give credit for special facets. And birthing ... well, it doesn't seem to have a high rank in Drub's life in general.

Flam is a bold character in the Shards storyline, although his motives are more mundane than that of the Elves. In "Rogue's Curse", however, he grovels in one scene and begs for mercy in another.
Honestly - I think it's a throw-back in very early Troll behavior ... not in Flam as such but in the artist's/author's mind.
In the very first issues of EQ the Trolls came around as ugly, cowardly, treacherous creatures ... starting with Scruff over Picknose and ending with Greymung. The author in Rogue's Curse simply needed a whiny cowardly big guy - and thought it's a good idea to take Flam.

Trollbabe

With classes due to begin soon, there's a new biology discussion being batted around at Old Maggoty Institute. The question is whether Elves are canines, like wolves, dogs and foxes.

The "canists" argue that Timmain assumed different animal shapes. It's also possible Timmain, or other High Ones, had the capacity to assume plant shapes.

These transformations were meant to insure the survival of the High Ones. For example, in hawk form, Timmain could catch small game, or see over distant hills.

One side effect of shapeshifting is the tendency to assume the behavior and thought pattern of the life-form one is imitating. Thus, Wolf-Timmain lived in the "now" of wolf thought, and eventually mated with the sire of Timmorn.

Timmain, in hawk form, might have mated with a hawk. High Ones in tree form might have pollinated with other trees. Later Elves who shape-shifted, might have done the same. Yet we see no Elf-tree hybrids, like the Ents of Middle Earth. Nor do we see Elf-hawks. Wavedancers, if they produce shapeshifters, have yet to crossbreed with marine mammals.

If the Elves' DNA is only compatible with wolves, argue the canists, doesn't that prove that Elves were a species of dog to begin with?

TrollHammer


With classes due to begin soon, there's a new biology discussion being batted around at Old Maggoty Institute. The question is whether Elves are canines, like wolves, dogs and foxes.

The "canists" argue that Timmain assumed different animal shapes. It's also possible Timmain, or other High Ones, had the capacity to assume plant shapes.

These transformations were meant to insure the survival of the High Ones. For example, in hawk form, Timmain could catch small game, or see over distant hills.

One side effect of shapeshifting is the tendency to assume the behavior and thought pattern of the life-form one is imitating. Thus, Wolf-Timmain lived in the "now" of wolf thought, and eventually mated with the sire of Timmorn.

Timmain, in hawk form, might have mated with a hawk. High Ones in tree form might have pollinated with other trees. Later Elves who shape-shifted, might have done the same. Yet we see no Elf-tree hybrids, like the Ents of Middle Earth. Nor do we see Elf-hawks. Wavedancers, if they produce shapeshifters, have yet to crossbreed with marine mammals.

If the Elves' DNA is only compatible with wolves, argue the canists, doesn't that prove that Elves were a species of dog to begin with?


Canists, or canibals?

It should be noted that Timain was a dog lover, this may have played a part in how mich effort she put into bearing young.

It should be noted, however, that there was a massive drought a few hundred years after the Palace's crashlanding. As a result, there was a massive firest fire that resulted in the Plains. It was rumored that some of the more extreme plant shapers may have settled there before the fire.

As to whether or not there had been any bird hybrids, its hard to say, as Timain was frequenting said doomed forest while exploring her avian side. The offspring may have disappeared with the forest.

TrollHammer

Of course, perhaps Im missing the point. You dont see any troll/cave slug hybrids, nor has any troll tried to cross breed with a rock.

Trollbabe

You dont see any troll/cave slug hybrids, nor has any troll tried to cross breed with a rock.


Check the House and Senate. I could also argue that en Grimm, "The Thing" of Fantastic Four fame, is a Troll/Rock hybrid.

TrollHammer




Check the House and Senate. I could also argue that en Grimm, "The Thing" of Fantastic Four fame, is a Troll/Rock hybrid.



True, but not a Troll of WoTM. Theres a difference.

Trollbabe

The WoTM is non-existent, so nobody actually does anything there. How is this different from a government shutdown?

RedheadEmber

What? WHAT? WHAT?
ARE YOU TELLING ME WOTM ISN'T REAL????

Two-Edge

Shhh! The secret services are listening in on everything. We can not just reveal the secret of the WoTM here. Great disaster it would bring. (and humans. brrrrr.) Don't worry Ember. Just lay low. All's fine. *hug*

Trollbabe

ARE YOU TELLING ME WOTM ISN'T REAL????


My work as a Troll is done.

RedheadEmber

You mean!
Nastybad Dig-Dig!

Embala

*Shhh*Then I'll tell you a secret.

There was no world of two moons, to begin with. Shh
There was only one moon before the Trolls have build the Daughter Moon out of a pod ship as a base to exploit the ressources of the Mother Moon.

And they call Abode the WoTC - World of Thousand Caves - and never accepted the name it was given by the elves.
Now be calm and don't tell the Trolls you know ... they need to feel superior in their knowledge.

Two-Edge

Embala said

*Shhh*Then I'll tell you a secret.

There was no world of two moons, to begin with. Shh
There was only one moon before the Trolls have build the Daughter Moon out of a pod ship as a base to exploit the ressources of the Mother Moon.

And they call Abode the WoTC - World of Thousand Caves - and never accepted the name it was given by the elves.
Now be calm and don't tell the Trolls you know ... they need to feel superior in their knowledge.


*sob* acknowledgement at last.

RedheadEmber

Hmm... this World of Thousand Caves thing sorta made me think of Finrod Felagund.
Just read Silmarillion...

Trollbabe

I think I read at least part of that book in the 1980s.


(Spoilers for Final Quest Prologue)



Does anyone know (a) who are the Trolls on the last page? Did Picknose return? Or is that Flam? and (b) Why we are so poorly represented in this otherwise high-quality publication?

Trollbabe

These are some of my first few posts, the year after I buried my father and tried to make sense of my life.

My Troll persona gave me a sense of pride and accomplishment, as well as an air of superiority.

Potoooooooo111

Question about troll origins.

I have heard it said that the home world of the High-Ones was earth in the far future. If that is the case , then the pets that they brought with them would be the descendants of earth animals. Now the scroll of colors said that trolls were descended from ground burrowing apes. So were they supposed to be apes that had evolved into a gopher like form or were they gophers that had evolved into an ape like form?
And if they were apes, just what type of ape did they evolve from? Gorillas?chimps?orangutans, gibbons?
also in the final Kavi calls Picknose an ape? How would she have known what an ape was? They don't live in freezing cold environments like the one that Go-Backs lived in?