ELFQUEST
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ELFQUEST AS A CONSOLE GAME ?

PCoquelin

I've been wondering lately : if Elfquest was ever to be adapted into a console (or PC) game, how would you like it done ?

My op' on it is it should be tried like the ICO game :
  very NON-violent and peaceful, with camera effects that seem to give
  an overall view (or other perceptions, like hearing or sniffing).
Same quality level (Wendy is VERY sensitive to quality, as us fans).
I imagine it in the World of two moons : inside the forest, out in the open (plains), or in the huge Blue Mountain.
What a wonderful way to promote Wendy's art and universe !

And there's tenderness in ICO : simply holding the hand of Yorda all along DOES give that feeling... So imagine with all the emotion panel we see in Elfquest !

What lacks to most games of this sort is not action (even ICO as MUCH in it : hardly got the time to breathe, sometime) but MEANS to express CREATIVITY, real dialogues and a NON-linear plot.

The problem with EQ would most probably be to escape the known plots...

Why I thought of that (and why in "All the many colors") : just because the zoom effect in ICO shows the characters and landscape's details, and without needing too much graphic work, in fact, to produce a great effect : the main thing is keeping animation fluid and "life-like" (in ICO : the main character really moves like a child...)

More info on ICO (Phenix Award 2002 - Best Universe) :
http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/reviews2/review.asp?revID=79
( You may find MANY other urls on it... )

Just waiting for your reactions...

Shade and sweet water !

Jeppe

an adventure game maybe? (not including very much action and killing, hopefully no killing!)

i think it would be nice if you were able to talk to different persons throughout the game, and when you talked to them, a picture of them drawn by wendy (or any other talented EQ artist) just my opinion!

PCoquelin

Good idea. The simple zoom effect (ICO) is good too : a character close enough may show some lip moves, and so on.
What would be cool would be hunt scenes.
And Wolfriders don't kill for sport : only just enough to survive.
Another good game was "A dog's life" for the sensory approach :
  in it you SEE smells around...

In fact I guess playing one (or + in a multi-player mode) wolfrider LIVING (first, then occasionally fighting or exploring or ...) in the world of two moons would be much fun.
For inst. you may begin with the lesser member Pike (the most prone to do anything silly), and then trying yourself at playing more special ones, up to Cutter...
Each one may have one (max. : 2, to stay on a simple basis) special ability (be it physical, social or mental) : what I can think of now :
. Pike : stamina to match
. Strongbow : special zoom for bow-hunting
. Redlance : tree-shaping and the like
. Moonshade : leather-tanning
. Cutter : quick slash (New Moon)

Then, there's the context question : there are many time gaps in the Wolfriders' storyline, which may prove to be interesting to live (play) in :
. Young Cutter (why not beg. with Madcoil's death !)
. Cutter in his main Quest (see how YOU deal with it all...)
. Sorrows End (7 years) : installing themselves & building a family and ...
. Cutter without his family (the long wait) :
most promising times for a game, in my sense
  ( most predictable choice for a graphic conceptor
    because the "cuties" are not here : twins, Leetah & Skywise )
( The question of the "cuties" : having characters that have a pre-known high graphic quality in a vid' game may RUIN it all for the graphist in charge may LOSE it VERY easy... - my fear )

Well, what do you think ?

Jeppe

Quote:
PCoquelin

Then, there's the context question : there are many time gaps in the Wolfriders' storyline, which may prove to be interesting to live (play) in :
. Young Cutter (why not beg. with Madcoil's death !)
. Cutter in his main Quest (see how YOU deal with it all...)
. Sorrows End (7 years) : installing themselves & building a family and ...
. Cutter without his family (the long wait) :
most promising times for a game, in my sense
  ( most predictable choice for a graphic conceptor
    because the "cuties" are not here : twins, Leetah & Skywise )
( The question of the "cuties" : having characters that have a pre-known high graphic quality in a vid' game may RUIN it all for the graphist in charge may LOSE it VERY easy... - my fear )

Well, what do you think ?



uuuh... like it! like it! especially the one in sorrows end!

PCoquelin

In building a vid' game, there is the TECHNICAL SIMPLICITY question to keep constantly in mind, esp. on PS2 or X-Box, 'cause of the drastic memory limit°s on management (history and the like), that seem to give us the "so poor-dialogues" drawback.
The graphic aspect is NOT a problem IF the graphist REALLY gets the sense of the universe depicted, and correctly fixes (UNDER WP's CONTROL) the most sign. character poses (only, cause for what's around, it's quite simple)

For Elfquest, one may stay on a simple basis for dialogues :
when you speak (or "send", or even act), you simply want to :
    . give some info ("a long-horn, there !")
or . express your feelings (bad mood, hungry...)
A good way could be playing on a small icon bar and "classical" thingies in it, the context settings being put in a binary system : available or not
This way, on an immediate basis, one could easily set the context FOR EACH CHARACTER (depending on his/her ind. situation) and avoid silliness and long menus and so on...

Having played for long, I come to this approach,
  but there ARE other ones...

Shall we discuss it, you and I ?

Jeppe

seems like it! i don't understand much of the technical stuff, but i do understand much of the rest!

but for the thing in sorrows end (because i haven't thought the other things through yet) what would a person do? well, the wolfriders live happily in the caves (i guess cutter moved in with Leetah, right?) you would hunt for food, depending on who you are you might do different things (if you are strongbow you might have to teach dart how to use the arrowthing he has, if you're skywise you might have to charm someone) but really, after thinking about it there isn't much to do, is there?

PCoquelin

Hmmm. "Not much to do"
There may come a strong (and wider, I hope) discussion on related q°.

Most vid' (or PC) games rely on :
. You win because you're the best (at skating, skiing, or anything)
. Kill / Destroy as many as possible
. Inquiry led to the end
. Win as much as possible
and such simplissistic ways, and time-limits.

Elves don't win (or lose), don't kill for sport, don't destroy (or build).
The Wolfriders HUNT, HOWL, and SURVIVE.
That could mean something VERY interesting in a vid' game :
The event(s) occur, WHILE YOU'RE SIMPLY BUSY LIVING IN THE NOW :
  playing, sleeping, hunting, socially dealing with other tribesmen, ...
  (and it's NOT nothing, and you may come to appreciate it serene)
Then YOUR choice(s) as a player will be :
  How do I (or we) deal with those occuring events ?
  ( flee, fight, find out what - why - how to defeat, ... )

There, there may be action WITH creativity, sharing, respect,
well alm. everything expressed by Elfquest.

AND a NON-linear system : you MAY let the problems happen WITHOUT solution : that will mean they will stay in place (and grieve some, certainly, for long or awful impact) and the whole tribe will have to LIVE WITH IT.
Mark my words : try and LIVE with a pack of close-by enraged near-wolves for inst., and you'll soon decide "to do something about it".

And elves are in no hurry ('cept Rayek, and I still wonder why)

See you !
( Btw : your sig is wonderful ! )

Arfurido

My ideas for an EQ game:

Great graphics is a MUST! I'd make it sort of a puzzle-adventure-game, kind of like the Zelda games, but with more of a "sims" feel to it: you have to find ot who's tricking you or not, of the different trolls and humans and elves you meet. There are tasks to be done, and you have to be sure your tribe is safe all the way. I'd pick Cutter to be the lead character. EQ has been about the world surrounding the wolfriders, so they'd have the lead role. There would be fights and different tasks to do to win prizes you need to continue. And powerful friends to help you with your mission, like "you need to see Windkin. He will help you with your journey. But you have to give him news of Ahdri to help you" and so on... oh what great fun that would be! :mrgreen:

PCoquelin

Huh... Why not ?

A thing about mystery games : they ARE interesting...
for a few hours only, unfortunately.

Something like The Sims.. Needs some reflexion.
Perso. : seeing elves act "automatically" doesn't raise my interest much.

However there's another idea there :
many actions are, say, "reflex" ones : one sure shouldn't have to pilot EVERYTHING the character does, EVERYTIME !
That too takes to the nerves (saw it in so many wargames...)

Any more idea / suggestion / question ..., anyone ?

PCoquelin

Another aspect : Elfquest is full of very good graphical effects (when considering a 3D video game) like :
. Sending stars
. Riding wolves (or flying giant birds)
. Forest environment (and climbing trees)
. "Going out" (Savah, Suntop, Winnowill...)
. Wolfrider senses : " ... and hear like a wolf !" :
  Imagine the camera system (like in ICO) creating the impression of near-centered and wide environment, and sound coming from a direction localizable by the camera direction (without losing the close sounds perception) : much like reality...

This sensory aspect seems VERY important to me, since NOT so many games correctly play on it. COMBINING sight and hearing and smell (and even touch with some vib' effects) could get confusing, tho'... Needs some reflexion again, or only triggered by part (like in "A dog's life" where you "switch" to odorama - but it should be more subtly shown here)

Oh well... I'll stop for now.

See you !

Firya

Well duh, Cutter IS Link ;D

Synesthesia

A Wolfrider-Final Fantasy/Sims combination would be lovely. Sims has some great graphics and textures too. And Final Fantasy games have such excellent plots and large quantities of magic.

Jeppe

you're very much right firya!

an all other way to look at it was to make it MMORPG (i think it's called...): Massive Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game. you can create your whole own elf. Either a good hunter or a magic-user, or maybe neither just for the roleplay part! this would, though, have the bad side that:
1: it would cost money (like all other MMORPG)
2: the game might be so good (and space-requiring) that you can't get a computer which won't lag!
3: when talking to someone, you would need to enter some kind of irritating chat room, which would prevent you from seeing what's happening in "the real world".

This game would also need an exp. system, in like: if you've played as a sun-folk healer for a RL year you should be at least somewhat better than a sun-folk healer who started yesterday.

one good thing though:

If you want to fight and get alot of action, play a go-back.

If you want to play to survive and "howl" play wolf-rider.

If you want to be very artistic and challenge others to some fun games play as sun-folk.

If you want to know all that's happening around you play as a glider.

Same as above except you get a little more "action" as one of the lucky first eight to sign up for being one of the chosen eight.

(you might also play as troll, but playing human doesn't make sense when it's an EQ game if you ask me!)

P.S. not that i dislike the other ideas! and this thread IS about a console EQ game (not one for computer)!

Alana

I'd prefer it in RPG form (think: Final Fantasy, Star Ocean 2, Level of Mana) where you can pick and choose a party for various "missions." (like recruit Cutter, Strongbow, Nightfall for a hunting party)

There are lots of "day to day" missions that you could do that wouldn't be incredibly violent - send Redlance and Ember out to secure the holt and make tricks to keep humans at bay, which could level up Redlance's magic to do various things. Hunting (but overdo it and the tribe scolds you) where battle and skill points could be leveled up, each characters having special "abilities" that would also be enhanced, such as Moonshade's tanning for increased armor and defense points on all members of the tribe, or Leetah, whose healing would only restore say, 100HP (hit points) at the beginning of the game, and more and more with stronger healing spells as the game goes on. Other missions could include fighting Madcoil-like beasts, growing the holt, mini-games with the trolls, hunting, scavenger hunting for various items, and tricking humans.

Can you imagine a cutscene with the quality of the movies in the Square games? It could be done in the animation style Wendy's always dreamed (for those who haven't seen recent video game cut scenes - they can rival films like Finding Nemo and any 2D animated cartoon for quality)

A few years ago I actually wrote the first page or two for what an EQ RPG script could be like, with what the NPC (non-playable characters) would say, what the elves did, what the stats were, but I gave up. My idea then was to adapt the Original Quest into an RPG, but it seemed too predictable.

Arfurido

Quote:
Alana

It could be done in the animation style Wendy's always dreamed



Maybe W&R should go for a video game instead of that movie that looks like it'll never happen? Wink

PCoquelin

Why, Arfurido, I came to thinking quite exactly the same thing...
And imagine WaRP presenting each new EQ Game as a new EQ story ?
( "Wow boy, now ya got the commercial sense ! " )

Quite a rush each time (and in France it's not so easy, in fact)

See you (tomorrow for more development on this promising topic...)

stardreamer

Wow Cool idea...

did you also consider to follow the storyline of the books??
and for the magic stuf.. did you thougt about something like in the Starwars Jedi Knight games? that you can choose to give some stars to special skills and so grow in skills you want..
btw.. a cool storyline would be Rayek when he runs a way from the sunvillage and ends up at the palace...

or something like that..

you have a good posabillaty in training his skills in the trollcaves..

Just an idea..

[edit]
I was thinkin.. you don't have to kill there.. and he has to use his powers.. and then you can go to this special training place where Ekuar is to train your powers.. and use them in the trollcaves..
wow.. I can already see it in my head..
maybe in such a game you better might use first person shooter (without the shoote. more like lara croft kinda)
:)
[/edit]

Alana

Quote:
Arfurido

Quote:
Alana

It could be done in the animation style Wendy's always dreamed



Maybe W&R should go for a video game instead of that movie that looks like it'll never happen? Wink



You know, I almost think I would enjoy a game more!

Jeppe

Quote:
Alana

Quote:
Arfurido

Quote:
Alana

It could be done in the animation style Wendy's always dreamed



Maybe W&R should go for a video game instead of that movie that looks like it'll never happen? Wink



You know, I almost think I would enjoy a game more!



yes, but what would be most fun?:

1: watching a movie for the tenth time.

2: completing a game for the tenth time.

?

twen

Why can't there be both? Every new movie seems to have an accompanying console game. Vice versa--they're making more games into movies. If we can just get one started, the other will follow.

If only things were that easy . . .

my vote is for RPG style like Knights of the Old Republic/ Baldur's Gate.

Mirr

PCoquelin, as you mention certain skills of characters to match.. I can't help thinking of how Lost Vikings was set up!

To shortly recap, what I remember at this point at least.
3 vikings, each with a unique ability except than all can walk/run:
1 could also jump.
1 could also use his shield for protection.
1 could also use his bow and shoot arrows with.

So one had to take turns in using all of these characters, to pass a map/level by doing the tasks needed by a specific character in a specific order too.


Other than that, making Holts come alive in full 3D is another thing that came to my mind, like an ElfQuest MMORPG as Jeppe described. And then it could be very similar to how things came to pass in the comics.. of course a gigant project nonetheless..

Arfurido

Quote:
Alana

You know, I almost think I would enjoy a game more!



Me too!! And it takes several days to get through a game (unless you're a real video game nerd) so the fun will last longer :)

scarlettdoll

I'm with ya'll on the game. Maybe get it RPG with lots of pretty cinematic cut scenes like the Final Fantasy games?

Alana

Quote:
Jeppe

yes, but what would be most fun?:

1: watching a movie for the tenth time.

2: completing a game for the tenth time.

?



Depends on the game. If it's a well-done game with lots of options, ending, and paths it can take, I may play a game through 20 times. Very few games are linear anymore, many have choices, and you if you make certain ones, you can't see what else can happen without playing it again.

scarlettdoll

yep, i have to keep playing FFX-2 until i get 100% completion so i can see the "perfect" ending. :roll:

Rainedancer

WOW!!!!!! :D
That sounds soooooo cool!!!
I wanna copy!! Grin

PCoquelin

Hummm. Final Fantasy nearly made me a console-nerd at a time :
  so beautiful scenes in between events & actions.

Yet, well, um...
Rather than a RPG (as I've seen & played too much)
I rather envisioned Elfquest being played as a one-player - team-action game, based on "living in the now" and freely switching between each character to position / make them act / talk / ... each his/her pov and situation and senses on...
I mean : just imagine a group action in the hunt, this way.
And NOT having to control each & every move (some do reflex actions & just follow the group).

Another possibility : when an event occurs, SLOW MOTION QUICK DECISION ROUND, then you see it played (alm.) automatically : that would reflect what Cutter once put : "as a group we ARE bigger "
Other that that, the play mechanisms should stay pretty simple (my op.).

By the way, I think the Madcoil event would be the perfect beginning for any player :
1. Normal situation some time before : normal hunt (learn the how-to)
2. Madcoil lurks around : remember the description : " something played with our senses, lurking around, just out of reach, the forest was silent " and the like...
3. Madcoil attacks (remember the physical AND mental shock & pain, and the terrible confusion that followed - could be done in a vid' game !)
                               
4. The Revenge
This whole story / scenario / event could have been "played" (in my sense, with a vid' game : lived) in ANY other way that it was in the orig. series : the Wolfriders MIGHT have tracked Madcoil, and/or NOT letting it attack them, and/or NOT lose so many, and/or NOT flee at once...
Something else than a net could have been suggested.
And so on...
There were choices, and not always the best ones : remember even Cutter admitted in front of all that Bearclaw's choice to hunt it alone (or almost, 'cause Cutter is only a youngster at this time) was a mistake !

The more I think about this topic, the more I feel it would be a far better way to "touch millions" than a movie, for I can already see some scenes and moves of such a game in my head...
And a vid' game is FAR MORE INVOLVING than a movie !

See you !

PCoquelin

The problem with the Sims or Final Fantasy is : in action, the mechanism and graphics make you lose contact : too far from reality, graphics not good enough for the characters (oh, for the surroundings : all right !)...
I would rather go for a more immediate (live it) system ( even Quake-like ! ) than a Warcraft or Sims or Final Fantasy action system
(in FF : never could stand the way the characters got selected - hop-jump I'm in action ! - or act...)

Once more, I advise you to have a look at ICO for the graphic presentation / action system : just imagine the same in forest and a group of Wolfriders (rather than in a castle and only one or two character)...

And with the 3D live/ZOOM-system : you may FEEL vertigo when climbing up a tree and looking down, you may get and feel lost when wandering too far from the group, with the star-sending system : you see and feel the other characters around, or may come back to them, and so on...

Shade !

PCoquelin

Quote:
Jeppe

an adventure game maybe? (not including very much action and killing, hopefully no killing!)

i think it would be nice if you were able to talk to different persons throughout the game, and when you talked to them, a picture of them drawn by wendy (or any other talented EQ artist) just my opinion!


Yes, dialogues ! And in Elfquest, words are of the utmost importance.
Not complex, tho'.
Consider this : when you talk, you express something, which is a mix of your feelings and info you want to deliver. Mixing some SMALL & IMMEDIATE indicators could very well bring automatically (magic of the computers !) a TEXT to be uttered !

As for the attitudes, facial ones (anger, pleasure, brooding...) may also very well be reflected in the game (just zoom at the face of the person you're talking to, or yours...).

Problem (TECHNICAL : easier to deal with with a PC than a PS2) is maintaining a history (char. managemet), but elves are depicted as having lives and adventures where this aspect only expresses itself on the LONG time-range. Therefore considering immediate action (in elves' time-scale) it doesn't matter as much as in most games.

See you !

Arfurido

Quote:
scarlettdoll

yep, i have to keep playing FFX-2 until i get 100% completion so i can see the "perfect" ending. :roll:



What about SSX2? Does that one have a "perfect" ending, do ya know...? Because I can only get it like 79% completed :?

PCoquelin

Arfurido : what's SSX2 ?

Following my line of thought :
In fact I realize there may be different game styles :
. LEARN THE WAY ! : everyday life, normal events, hunts, defendng the territory (nearby hostile humans), in a quiet context (various eras)
. THE QUEST : Follow the line, follow the line... style :
relive the grand orig. Quest, trying and keep with the orig. plot up to the end...
. ADVENTURES : Madcoil event, any adventure (NOT quest) happening to our beloved Wolfriders (or others, like Wavedancers or Sun-Folk or...) : deal with a VERY disturbing event (or + than one) and try getting back to a normal situation.
. OTHER TRIBES : New Ember tribe (new territories to explore, how to settle, how to be/keep a real chief...), other elves (and other ways...), or even play the trolls (could be fun !)

All this in the system I foresee...
Damn, it's conception here.

Hey Arfurido : I think Foxfur brought many joy in Bearclaw's tribe,
  which role went to Pike or others afterwards...
This IS important too (playing, dreaming, laughing...).

See you !

Arfurido

I think that about Foxfur too, PC :)

SSX are EA sports Snowboard games. It might sound strange, but it's a pretty wicked game :D

PCoquelin

Oh yeah ! Played a lot of this kinda sport games, at a time...
Fun, but you gotta get used to it, for most.

Btw : The pad question :
This is more important than it seems at first,
  cause it may RUIN the gaming pleasure if bad...

PS2 pad ex. for the system I envision :

. Left analogic stick : moves
. Right analogic stick : camera
. (Left) dir° bns. : moves AND/OR ... (to be est.) (combos with 'em)
. Shape bns. :
  . Cross : action (classical) :
     . Attack (shoot an arrow, throw a pike, slash with New Moon...)
     . OR ... (to be est.) (Think of combos...)
  . Others (Square, Triangle, Circle) : (to be est.)
    Here typically these controls may be used for :
    . Taking ( Using : Cross bn. ) OR releasing an object
    . Special actions / menus like :
      . switching between characters
      . choosing what to say / how to use an object
      . trigger a special ability
        (tho' some could come auto. like the hyper-zoom for Scouter)
. trigger-like bns. (named L1, L2, R1, R2) :
  . L1 : Zoom (L1 for not being at the same side as the camera stick)
  . L2 : Change sight / action scale (group / ind.)
  . R1 : Weapons on ( / off )
  . R2 : Send (group : Open send) OR Talk (group : to everyone)
. Tiny Start and Select bns. :
  . Start (Pause effect) : directly to the Options screen,
     where one could (slightly) change some characters pre-settings (...)
  . Select : na

And there may be SIMPLE combos
(ex. : Lock / unlock group sight / action, auto. mode for a character ...)
(or more tricky ones for special moves / attacks / uses)

Oh, and NATURAL direction for moves / zooms (I mean : considering the screen display situation) is VERY profitable...

And on the other end, some Pad-manipulation drawbacks may as well reflect some hard-to-do things like :
the hunter moves slowly (careful Left stick moves) while focussing on his prey (constant zoom with L1) and correcting his aim (auto-fixed small cross on the prey pic) that is not that good (trembles or moves randomly), the slight corrections being made with the dir° bns. Then he'll have to throw his spear (or shoot his arrow) with the Cross bn...
Yep, rather uneasy, but near reality...

Many things (like the aiming here) should come auto. : after all, Wolfriders have had centuries practising the difficult art of hunting in forest, and keeping one's aim at the prey is one of those (though an untrained hunter - too young for inst. - may have trouble keeping the prey in his aim)
Also imagine some VERY practised hunters like Strongbow : his aim would stay perfectly at the prey's vitals, no matter what (reasonable) move ( " Strongbow never misses, never... " ).

Well, what do you make of it ?

scarlettdoll

Arfurido--i don't know! FF is the only video game i've played in a while (and Super Smash brothers! Awesome game!) :) But FFX-2 has 3 endings and i've only seen the common one so far. (and it's not the ending i want)

LordDarkhan

I am all for an Elfquest game........only if I can play as Rayek and attack the go back lodge :D

PCoquelin

Quote:
LordDarkhan

I am all for an Elfquest game........only if I can play as Rayek and attack the go back lodge :D


Oh you know, it might have happened the very first time they met :
only a matter of perception, for Rayek was very much the one to consider any different elf as a potential enemy (and go-backs have always been a rather aggressive bunch, thanx to Kahvi !)
Who knows how the first meeting could have turned ?

A console game may show some things we just hinted at, for long...
And LET YOU choose what happens, somehow !

( Just waiting for more reactions )

PCoquelin

About cinematics (real animated movie-like scenes in between normal play sessions), an Elfquest console game could show great ones :
. Skywise's quick draw and slash of the Thief
. Voll's death and the giant bird's fall
. Madcoil's attack
and so on...
Only some points to keep in mind :
  these require REAL (tho' short) ANIMATION WORK,
  and a good way to "fuse" it with the usual play scenes (in AND out)

Sure, I can't imagine an EQ console game without such cinematics...

The more I re-read the series with this topic in mind,
  the more I think it could be done...

Still, there's the graphic basic technicality problem of the VGA resolution :
it sure may make Wendy hesitate, when considering graphic quality.

See you !

PCoquelin

Other tech' aspects to keep in mind :

. LIGHT EFFECTS : in EQ, the Wolfriders have "night-vision" (tapetum light-increasing system many wild animals have), so this question won't that much a problem : just the sky to consider (and tapetum DOES make those stars - tiny lights - appear a bit brighter - just as in the series ), and some side-effects : at night, one may miss a branch when jumping, or little things like that

. POSTURES : limiting the number of possible postures is a classical way for the console game-builder to limit mem. management problems ('cause if any caharacter may have many postures, there's a multiplying process...) For Elfquest, we mainly see Wolfriders stand, or crouch or riding their wolves, or sitting or sleeping. That should be enough (or add jumps and rolling and crawling moves).
The "weapon on", facial aspects, ... effects may be (for most) super-imposed to the posture, which avoids too much multiplying.

. ZOOM / DISTANCE FROM THE SUBJECT: quite a delicate setting, this :
we want to RECOGNIZE at once any character, but we also want to see much of his/her surroundings; therefore, the - at will - zoom system seems very interesting to me, since it allows both (if the usual sighting distance is well set) AND to see facial / prey / surrounding details at will.

About sensory effects, I've come to think that smelling is NOT like sight or hearing : it depends on air moves, and your position, therefore, it would be better (rather than the "A dog's life" odorama) to just put a line of text at the bottom of the screen indicating what your character smells (or mixes), IF he/she DOES smell sth., cause (for inst.) rain and strong wind (or even some emotions or physical states) DO stop smells from being well perceived / identified.

... I'm still thinking ...

woebringer

how a bout like the LoTRs ps2 games different characters for different missions. and the elfs half to fight the taliban or alquida or the democrats or the comunist, or worst of all yankees. :twisted: :roll:

and for that matter why have the elfs at all put the trolls in it they are the only cool eq characters.

StarShine

-Make it a console/ PC game

-Make it fun

KOTR(Knights of the Old Republic
I say if you make an EQ game make it KOTR (Knights of the Old Republic)- Open ended and allows for good(Cutter) or evil(Winnowill) characters and the people(NPCs) react as such to your character.

FFXI
Or you could make it MMORPG(Final Fantasy XI) you know you play an elf who can hunt and all. I guess it would be rated "T" for teen since of the hunting(, and Recognition (Dunno what the game makes her would do with that I guess it'd be simmy with the hearts or maybe some ** to indicate it?)

Sims
Basically taking care of your charcter... and you know feeding(by hunting and and such)

I guess it all those things. I mean good combination of it could make it an MMORPG or a singleplayer game easily. Maybe someone should pitch this to Wendy and Richard and see what they think, then all us EQ fans can bug the Square Enix to make the game. :)

scarlettdoll

Quote:
PCoquelin

(in FF : never could stand the way the characters got selected - hop-jump I'm in action ! - or act...)



What's the last FF game you played? Cuz they're totally different now. I forgot the term they use but everyone can go at one time, just as soon as their recoup bar is full. No hopping skipping or jumping unless that's part of the attack you gave them. :)

PCoquelin

Last FF played : X-2 (PC) : well not only do they hop-jump in action,
  but worse still : those dollz-like charz dance or sing in it !!

Weelll, I know the latest MMORPG look GOOD, indeed (Lineage, for inst.)
Playing 'em reveals other things, however, like :
. group-playing doesn't seem that much involving for players
. overabundance (of objects for inst.)
. menus difficult to manage / silly actions
. too high character levels ( I'm damn too used to ye olde AD&D, sure )
. damn servers sometimes stop the play (for one or two full seconds lags)
( My point on it )

I see an EQ console game more like sth. between a PS2 and PC (or both) - designed game, because the PC may allow developping strong texts, and the PS2 (or the like) strengthens action scenes (immediateness and "live" effects).

Well, now, just waiting for more reactions...

PCoquelin

Communication :

. Talking : elves talk in their own "tongue-tangling" language, or troll (why, it even seems that the language is the same...), and sometimes use the ugly human language (well, the one available at the time among nearest humans)
Let's say this is the talking system I blabbered about (symbolized infos + feelings, mixed into a text uttered - or whispered)

. Sending : elves may send info + emotions, but also pictures, which could be reflected in the game by :
The player is in a hunt and sees (or knows) where all the Wolfriders are. Pike suddenly sees a buck, but in a position not very easy to reach : reflex-action : he sends what he sees to Cutter (the leader) : an occurring pic-send from Pike happens to the player screen, who sees what Pike sees (practical - play question : the player sees Pike, then the zoom for him towards the prey)
More : Wolfriders' wolves may send simple info + feel ("Wolf send") :
  "Humans... They bring fire !"
Three kinds of sending :
. Open send (Voll's, "before violence erupts", is the best example)
. Usual one-to-one (or one to a few) sending
. LOCK-send : this has intimate use or (as with Strongbow with Skot & Krim) a way to make sendings clear to untrained senders.

. Howling : specialty of wolves & Wolfriders, may prove useful in a hunt (to guide the wolves to the prey(s) or the other way 'round) or in other situations... (" And they say Bearclaw was a gambler ! ")

. "Going out" is also a far-away communication system, but except between the pair Savah - Suntop, we don't see it happening much

. One interesting, alm. mystic, approach is the presence (AMONG the tribe) of those Wolfriders dead, who may - even dead - somehow communicate or help (but this is maybe a bit too far for a game)

Well... Can't see other elfin com' systems for now.
See you !

Uite

my idea would be to make it something like ghost recon.
by that I don't mean a first person shooter, but with a comparable set-up, ie: you pick from a list of missions/chapters and each completed mission opens up the next in chronological order. after you pick the mission/chapter, you select who you'd want in your party to try the mission with.

chapters could be grouped in campaigns, eg a holt or sun village or quest campaign. what you do in a chronologically earlier mission should affect later missions: you could, in a way, go back in time to correct things you think went wrong, or try them with different characters. depending on how you play the mission you could open up different chapters or mission paths or even different campaigns, kind of like old choose-your-own-adventure gamebooks. btw, i don't mean campaign in the wargame sense: i just mean a set of chapters that follow after each other.

you could use cell-shaded graphics. i think they could be made to resemble wendy's art far better than regular 3d-graphics and they would make for a great and seamless transition between cut-scenes and gameplay. correct me if im wrong, but they are also far less demanding, freeing up possibilities for larger levels and more dialogue

PCoquelin

I don't know Ghost recon. but I sure approve the FPS approach far more than the Sims / Warcraft / FF action scenes.

However, I think it would be even better to adopt "near-FPS" sights, close "third person" I mean, and GROUP sights ( / hearing ) as well.

The system used in ICO is very good for the usual sight distance (lets you recognize your charz AND perceive a lot of your surroundings) and the zoom effects (lets you see - even a little in the cinematic cuts - details, faces, surroundings details).
( ICO trailer here : http://images.vnunet.com/v6_downloads/screendragon/ico/ICO.flm
  - Latest QuickTime viewer for it )


And more than in "missions", I believe in contexts / scenarios / stories.
That is : the player doesn't choose the quest / mission, but he/she simply has to "roll with the blows" and make the Wolfriders survive the (surprise) events...

PCoquelin

Graphics :

Here for an ex. from ICO (zoom effect on) :

 

It's obvious there is no line :
  only flickers of color (+ slowly fluctuating effect).
This must be kept in mind when converting a ( line + colouring ) wendy pic into something like that, because the graphic spirit may easily be lost...
I think it's a matter of constant control by Wendy :
. Keeping the character recognizable
. Playing on slow image/colors variations (cycle)
  to get closer to the orig. drawing
. Keeping fluidity ("alive" effect) in static but especially on moving subjects
. It all comes from well-chosen significant poses

And the technical limitation of VGA reso. is to be kept in mind too.

An almost magical possibility could be, at some times in the game, to see (click on a small & discrete occuring icon near the subject) the original drawing by Wendy in an adjoining little frame...

Well, that's all for now.
( Waiting for more reactions... )

PCoquelin

VALUES :

Well, in most games, you got a value system to tell "I've won / I've lost"
Though in an EQ vid' game I'm not sure at all it would be relevant,
  there MAY be some (unusual) values adopted :

Earned value when (highest first) :
. Keeping the tribe safe ( "The tribe comes first !" )
. Keeping the cubs out of harm ( "My cub is hurt !!" )
. Avoiding life losses (or even severe wounds)
. Bringing enough meat to survive (Ember's problem in the plains)
. Establishing better social relationships in the tribe

On the contrary, the player should lose value
  when NOT accomplishing such feats
  but also when :
. Unduely destroying resources (preys, tools, leather...)
. Unduely risking lives (remember Bearclaw's reckless atitude...)
. Not maintaining a good group cohesion,
  be it on a dynamic session (like a hunt) or the everyday life (social)

As I stated before, Wolfriders do NOT build or earn or give :
  they HUNT, HOWL and SURVIVE, and simply SHARE !

But is it compatible with a console (or PC) game !?

Your points on it ?

teardrop38

yeah a pc game would be kool

woebringer

lets face facts here :(
if eq was made into a game nobody but eq fans would play it. :(
that means that the game company would lose money and there would be no eq game 2 :(

besides balders gate:dark allance, balders gate:dark allance 2,and champions of norrath. are just too good to compeat with. :D

PCoquelin

Not so sure, Woe.
And BG has to run in a VERY different category.
'Cuz I don't think an EQ console game should have to follow the same trap-monster-treasure routine (and all silliness related to it) as AD&D...
( That's what I wuz trying to develop here... )

See ya !

PCoquelin

Well. This was my analysis.

Anyone else ready to try and present here his/her way to make a console (or PC) game based on Elfquest ?

In order to make it a commercial success ?

In details ?

Shade and sweet water !

Three-Edge

I think the easiest way would be building a map for Warcraft 3 TFT.

The World Editor can do all things required in quests.
E.g.:
Quest 1: Avoid the Humans from destroying father tree
Quest 2: hunt x deers in x minutes (meat problem)
Quest 3: make leather to deal with the trolls
etc.


[quote:b25ad46453] Avoiding life losses (or even severe wounds)
[/quote:b25ad46453]
Maybe its possible to make all wolfriders so important, that you need them to finish the game.

Maybe an EQ game would be very similar to Commandos

but only maybe :(

PS: I dont know if there are elfquest maps, but if anyones knows, please tell me :?: :?: :?:

Arthis

Quote:
Three-Edge

PS: I dont know if there are elfquest maps, but if anyones knows, please tell me :?: :?: :?:



There is at least 2 maps : one in the RPG, of the wolfriders original holt, and one in the Wolfrider's Guide to the world of two Moons, of the entire planet. I posted this one somewhere else in this forum, but I don't remember where..

Three-Edge

@arthis
[ Perserver-mode on] Great,Great, Great,Great,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, GreatGreat,Great, Great
[Perserver-mode off]

Thanks. I will search!

Edit
[Perserver-mode on] Nasty-big Forum! Evil Grin [preserver-mode off]
I couldt find anything...
Anyone out there who could help?

Arthis

I can email it to you if you want. (PM me)


edit:

here's the link to the post : http://colo.elfquest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=313&start=15

and the direct link to the pic : http://membres.lycos.fr/arthislille/hpbimg/Adobe.jpg (you'd better read the post first, because there are some missing infos on the map)

woebringer

here is the walk through Surprised Grin :twisted:
use 2spear to kill off cutter and you win, ally with trolls to take over the palace, use winnowill to destroy sorrows end, use pike to run shine ... :roll:
the real thing will probaly be much worse. :(

Three-Edge


PS:


Edit:


What? I was looking for map playable with WC3: TFT !

You've got a PM, Arthis...

Arthis

Quote:
Three-Edge



What? I was looking for map playable with WC3: TFT !



Sorry, I misunderstood your question.

Jeppe

Quote:
Three-Edge


PS:


Edit:


What? I was looking for map playable with WC3: TFT !

You've got a PM, Arthis...



i've been working on one for about a year, but it's a maul, so i can't say it would be much EQ like ecxept characters. Besides, our computers memory was just totally wiped out and now i can't find my CD-key for TFT... :(

StarShine

ElfQuest would make a good MMORPG- (though I'd like to think you could have a lot Holts/Villiages ect. (a.k.a Clans on most other games) and keep it cool. Perhaps having roleplay be a HUGE part of the game, hunting and even bonding with animals, I mean cooking and magic and well being an elf no matter what the tribe with a bunc of other REAL people who also enjoy ElfQuest would be very good.

It'd also make a cool console game with similar elements- make it The Sims (2) like and you'd have the makings for a good game... though I'm all for having 'random' events in the game to make life a little more interesting I'd love to be able to 'set things in motion' too.

On that note, I also think a Statistical Japanese RPG (Final Fantasy) might not work to well with ElfQuest and yet it would. I'll elaborate on this more when I have time.

lostshard

i think An rpg in the likes of FF or Dragonquest would work perfectly...use celshading...or in the way 'Kingdom Hearts' was made....very cool...

but if it is not an rpg, i will not bother to buy it

SoftPrettyBigThing

i think it should be like the KOTOR games where your actions can choose your side, your alignment, possibly your tribe.
oooh an idea is forming :D :D :D
for the storyline you're an elf exiled from his or her tribe and you're trying to be adopted by one of the other tribes, wolfriders, sunvillagers, etc or if you're very evil winnowill will adopt you! :twisted:
and depending what tribe you choose, changes the ending in some cataclysmic battle.

whose side will you choose?

Hydra_Lord

Honestly,

Comics to Video Games have never had a series of success *sans the Sandbox vrs of Spiderman + Spiderman 2* So i'm overall very against the idea of a EQ game.


The best thing I can come up with, is a special scenario. Due to PC's Various rules *no killing for sport, hunting and surviving* we should pick a situation that the wolfriders were in that involved lots of adventure and situations where they had no other choice?


The Shard Series maybe?
Think about it, you could have steath options to sneak past humans *MSG, Thief* combined with fairly accurate intense storyline to regain the shattered palace shards.

And finally, since the pack splits up so much. You could maintain several different storylines and it would be wonderful.

Now I have no idea how appropriately this would be executed *FPS* *Marvel Avengers style* Honestly I rather it not happen.


But still, the little fanboy part of me does get a bit tingly thinking about controlling cutters wolf as he jumps from citadel roof-top to roof-top.

Nowth

http://www.robinhood-game.com/web/en/randompict.php?pict=screenshot_014.jpg
http://www.robinhood-game.com/web/en/randompict.php?pict=screenshot_007.jpg
http://www.robinhood-game.com/web/en/randompict.php?pict=screenshot_018.jpg

Maybe something like this could work? Each of your "heroes" has unique skills like "throwing purses", "always carries food with him", "herbal medicine healer", "reconnaisance and espionage".

I'd much prefer that to the RPG model with statistics where you spend ages hacking your way through random monsters to level up. Yawn.

Seems suited to EQ too - with skills like sending, plant shaping, howling and riding-giant-hawks you would have to solve one and the same problem in radically different ways, depending on the characters chosen. Just like Rayek and Cutter used different skills in the trial of head. (Well, Cutter used a magnet, but still.)

I liked that about Maniac Mansion. If you picked the novelist and the punk rocker, the game would involve improving a manuscript and recording a song. Always multiple keys for the same door.

So maybe less strategy than in Robin Hood. Fewer battles - instead more adventurey clue-hunting and problem-solving, interacting with characters and objects in various ways, and if it's just "take/drop" and "use" or something like that...

It's a quest, after all. None of the Wolfriders had any idea about anything in the beginning. From the troll tunnels to Sorrow's End, the key in New Moon, the Hoan G'Tay Sho, Gliders, the Egg, Two-Edge rockshaping, the Palace and their lost home among the stars - it was one mystery after another.

It'd be such a shame to see that find-out-big-stuff element lost or relegated to cut-scenes. Doesn't anyone else feel cheated by in-game movies? First I have to do all the grunt work, then some pre-determined story-bit happens without me... granted, if that's what it takes to get an EQ animated movie... :)

As for the looks, I do prefer a scrolling "painted" world as in the screenshots above, or as in Diablo II or Ultima 8 or something -- not wallpapers plastered to the side of,er, geometry... - okay, so I'm still biased against 3D. Especially first person POV 3D. Especially for keeping track of multiple characters. I just get lost that way.

And it would have to be alive. Like, with rainswept nights and howling wind, and birds rising from the trees, and snow! And fireflies! Everything! The kind of game that'll make you want to move in! *gibber*

And it would be an action game too! You could run and climb and jump and ride and float and dance and sing and do cartwheels!

And!

Stuff.

Foxeye

I think ElfQuest would work great as a first-person RPG, first person adventure, or small multi-player rpg/adventure where you created your own character. Something like, say, Oblivion. Some sort of central quest, but then plenty of other adventuring to wander off to do.

I don't think it would work so hot as an MMORPG, though. Not until MMORPG's evolve to include "RPG" again. For one thing, magic in elves is still supposed to be rare. And yet in an MMORPG everyone would want to have a lot of it. And like Nowth said...hack'n slash would be terrible in EQ. What do you do...have the ten twins of madcoil come back? Make winnie the villain again so you can fight her magic monsters? There's so little to fight. EQ isn't supposed to be about fighting anyways, but about love. How do you maintain that theme of love in a gaming market that seems to mostly care about e-achievement?

It would require, I think, a visionary.

Until then, there is Neverwinter Nights 2. Create the World of Two moons on a stand-alone server, write modules that fit that world, and only let people play halflings (for wolfriders/gobacks/sunfolk) or elves (for wavedancers or glider-types), or humans. Get someone to mod the halflings to have pointy ears. And voila! ElfQuest game! I bet someone did it already with NWN, now that I think about it. There was so much going on in that game.

nevaratoiel

Don't really like the look of that Robin Hood Game.

I'm not sure if it's already been said, becuase I'm just a little bit lazy. I've been playing a lot of Final Fantasy and I think that's the best sort of game that I would think about. It's an RPG, but from what I've seen it's quite an unique sort of game. Let Square Enix do the work and it'll be alright. Elfquest Fantasy. :P

So yes, RPG would work best. :)

I added some pictures of Final Fantasy X. The last one is of one of the movies in the game, which you watch, not play. Really cool.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Nevaratoiel/final-fantasy-x-ps21.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Nevaratoiel/final-fantasy-x-ps21-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Nevaratoiel/final-fantasy-x-ps21-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Nevaratoiel/final-fantasy-x-ps21-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/Nevaratoiel/final-fantasy-x-ps21-4.jpg

Nowth

I guess I just can't really stomach modern video games. Neither space marine zombie grit nor anything that looks like anime in any way, nor first person perspectives. *brr* It just doesn't give me a sense of, dunno, scenery... everything's coming at me from every direction and I'm glued to the middle of the world and I can't even tell how far away it is and, eep.

Which I suppose explains why my newest console is an Atari 7800 and my newest purchased game is Myst III. Hey, it had that chirpy little bunny creature, and wave sounds. (I dunno what else the game was about, never got anywhere)




As for what I do like: games with a story - and where you can actually affect and manipulate the world around you and not just kill it when it attacks...

Items and characters in the world that are unique and generally exist for a particular, plot-relevant purpose, even when they can be misused creatively...

...like using a teleportation spell to shoplift - or a pickaxe - or a dog trained to fetch ;). Well, yes, the shop would have to actually exist as tangible game-world objects. Don't just give some crummy old menu, give me the thing itself and let the laws of in-game physics work it out.




What I've always been hiding from: multiplayer games. When I do play games (and that's almost never) it's to get AWAY from people :P... and somehow I've felt that the "snowglobe" appeal of a pristine artificial miniature universe is missing when there's too much OMGWTF and squishy messy human role-playing.

I'm not sure about what you can do in a multiplayer game, and how. By typing that you do it? That would not, for example, help a lot with world-changing events like the transformation of Blue Mountain into a giant floating Egg. Those things would have to be built in, no?




But is this possible at all - a massively multiplayer adventure game? Wouldn't that mean every player would have to have New Moon, complete with the key? The status of Two-Edge's lair would have to reset itself every time a fresh player entered... Aroree would abduct endlessly replenished supplies of Windkins while simultaneously flying across the vastdeep or haggling with Winnie or weeping for Skywise...

That would be a horrible mess I imagine; at the very least it'd necessitate that every play-through be planned in advance with nobody joining in later...

I can't see how to make that work, anyway. The players would instantly dismantle the plot and then there'd be, I dunno what left. Zwootherding and human-shooting? Or pretend-play with graphics, but no integration into the mechanics of the gameworld? E.g.: you could act out a recognition in chat or with gestures, if available... but if it's not built into the game then you might as well write emails about it... no, I guess I'm not getting it. How do MMORPGs work? What kinds of story can take place there?

And are there any non-massively multiplayer games? I could picture that. Five or six players queue up on a server, picking available characters from the books or creating their own, and then play through a tightly plotted adventure together. That might work for "everything-changing" plots like those of EQ.

StarShine

THere are games that are smaller, they're called forum roleplayer or even e-mail roleplayer ,even chat room Rp could accomplish the feeling of closeness.

Actually that might not be such a bad idea, a group of EQ forum players could get together in a chatroom or something and hold an EQ (player-made tribe) or something?

Ok enough of my chitter. :)

Nowth

I'm sure there are a bunch of those already. Leanan runs a Blue Mountain forum RP...

But I'd say those aren't actually computer games; they're using the computer as a long-distance communications medium only. The actual game is entirely the result of its players' creativity, no?

I remember Two Moons MUSH, but... there didn't seem to be anything to do, or going on! - I suppose a MUSH is more like a huge, labyrinthine chatroom, and to experience any kind of game/story you'd have to engage in pretend-play with other humans present... hmm...

PCoquelin

OK : Let's discuss a bit.

@Nowth :

Quote:
Nowth

I guess I just can't really stomach modern video games. Neither space marine zombie grit


Same here.
Quote:
Nowth

nor anything that looks like anime in any way, nor first person perspectives. *brr* It just doesn't give me a sense of, dunno, scenery... everything's coming at me from every direction and I'm glued to the middle of the world and I can't even tell how far away it is and, eep.


Why such a stress ? And if the "First person" approach IS somewhat stressing, you may try the "Near FPS", ie a camera ( even rolling around, at will, or with some predefined angles like in Comanche 3 )
Quote:
Nowth

Which I suppose explains why my newest console is an Atari 7800 and my newest purchased game is Myst III. Hey, it had that chirpy little bunny creature, and wave sounds. (I dunno what else the game was about, never got anywhere)


I'd only advise being a little bit more curious...
Quote:
Nowth

As for what I do like: games with a story - and where you can actually affect and manipulate the world around you and not just kill it when it attacks...
Items and characters in the world that are unique and generally exist for a particular, plot-relevant purpose, even when they can be misused creatively...


I tried and express quite the same a few pages ( and months ) before.
Quote:
Nowth

...like using a teleportation spell to shoplift - or a pickaxe - or a dog trained to fetch ;). Well, yes, the shop would have to actually exist as tangible game-world objects. Don't just give some crummy old menu, give me the thing itself and let the laws of in-game physics work it out.


Well, not considering the relevance of the examples you mentioned for an Elfquest game, I see your point,
  but keep in mind a computer technicality that states that there can only be a LIMITED range of scenes, actions, and the like...
Quote:
Nowth

What I've always been hiding from: multiplayer games. When I do play games (and that's almost never) it's to get AWAY from people :P... and somehow I've felt that the "snowglobe" appeal of a pristine artificial miniature universe is missing when there's too much OMGWTF and squishy messy human role-playing.


Reaallly ? Seeing no pleasure in the very idea of sharing adventures with others ? What a pity...
Quote:
Nowth

I'm not sure about what you can do in a multiplayer game, and how. By typing that you do it? That would not, for example, help a lot with world-changing events like the transformation of Blue Mountain into a giant floating Egg. Those things would have to be built in, no?


Here's a good point : the feeling of BUILDING something is really missed in games, nowadays.
Yes, I can hear screams from here : "Hey, but in MMORPG we build our characters", yep, yep but what else ?
Hey MMO-gamers : Can you build a "Holt" ?
Quote:
Nowth

But is this possible at all - a massively multiplayer adventure game? Wouldn't that mean every player would have to have New Moon, complete with the key? The status of Two-Edge's lair would have to reset itself every time a fresh player entered... Aroree would abduct endlessly replenished supplies of Windkins while simultaneously flying across the vastdeep or haggling with Winnie or weeping for Skywise...
That would be a horrible mess I imagine; at the very least it'd necessitate that every play-through be planned in advance with nobody joining in later...


Very good point again, I envisioned the very same problem with a simple solution in mind : NOT a massive multiplayer game.
If the game is kept open to a LIMITED number of players, it can work great ( like I strongly regret Baldur's Gate and some other games like Comanche 3 were not more followed all around, you know... ),
like you say right after :
Quote:
Nowth

I can't see how to make that work, anyway. The players would instantly dismantle the plot and then there'd be, I dunno what left. Zwootherding and human-shooting? Or pretend-play with graphics, but no integration into the mechanics of the gameworld? E.g.: you could act out a recognition in chat or with gestures, if available... but if it's not built into the game then you might as well write emails about it... no, I guess I'm not getting it. How do MMORPGs work? What kinds of story can take place there?
And are there any non-massively multiplayer games? I could picture that. Five or six players queue up on a server, picking available characters from the books or creating their own, and then play through a tightly plotted adventure together. That might work for "everything-changing" plots like those of EQ.



Now, I think an interesting solution might come from the collective imagination of all interested fans around.

So video-furious elf-fans, what sort of console / video / PC / Mac game would you like ?

Nowth

Quote:
PCoquelin


[quote:7a2391c483="Nowth"]nor anything that looks like anime in any way, nor first person perspectives. *brr* It just doesn't give me a sense of, dunno, scenery... everything's coming at me from every direction and I'm glued to the middle of the world and I can't even tell how far away it is and, eep.


Why such a stress ? And if the "First person" approach IS somewhat stressing, you may try the "Near FPS", ie a camera ( even rolling around, at will, or with some predefined angles like in Comanche 3 )[/quote:7a2391c483]
I do get lost in it - I like having a bit of an overview, and not wonder what's in front of what or how far away it is, or where north is or if I've come this way or that... I have no idea how to draw a mental map of it, so to speak. If I had a car, I'd probably smash it into a wall within half an hour.

Ultima 8 got it right, The Sims got it right, Powermonger...

And I don't need or even want photorealism. I don't want another real world, I want a proudly unreal one :) I mean, really. Van Gogh didn't paint realistically either!
Quote:
Nowth

Which I suppose explains why my newest console is an Atari 7800 and my newest purchased game is Myst III. Hey, it had that chirpy little bunny creature, and wave sounds. (I dunno what else the game was about, never got anywhere)


I'd only advise being a little bit more curious...[/quote:7a2391c483]
It's just there're so many things to be curious about...

Quote:
Nowth

...like using a teleportation spell to shoplift - or a pickaxe - or a dog trained to fetch ;). Well, yes, the shop would have to actually exist as tangible game-world objects. Don't just give some crummy old menu, give me the thing itself and let the laws of in-game physics work it out.


Well, not considering the relevance of the examples you mentioned for an Elfquest game, I see your point,
but keep in mind a computer technicality that states that there can only be a LIMITED range of scenes, actions, and the like...[/quote:7a2391c483]
Of course, but if you can combine these, then there's a lot players can do - even unplanned things. Let's say you declare some objects to be heat sources, others to be liquids, and devise a rule that heat sources make liquids evaporate. The game doesn't have to know in advance then that there might be a cauldron over an open fire at some point, or a puddle of acid, or a magic potion.

A dog who picks up objects and brings them to you is quite coincidentally a potential thief.

And a basilisk whose touch turns people to stone can become a formidable weapon - you'll just have to make sure you're wearing gloves.

The reason these examples have nothing to do with Elfquest is that I'm thinking of other specific games...

Quote:
Nowth

What I've always been hiding from: multiplayer games. When I do play games (and that's almost never) it's to get AWAY from people :P... and somehow I've felt that the "snowglobe" appeal of a pristine artificial miniature universe is missing when there's too much OMGWTF and squishy messy human role-playing.


Reaallly ?[/quote:7a2391c483]
Yes, or almost...
[quote:7a2391c483] Seeing no pleasure in the very idea of sharing adventures with others ? What a pity...[/quote:7a2391c483]
I see pleasure in it, but not so much for me... I feel so watched... forced to constantly act out a role that is considered appropriate for both the game and for me... and that's exactly what I want to escape. No, in a game I want to do silly, bizarre, pointless, embarrassing, whimsical things, or just walk around aimlessly, experiment; I want to play somebody who I'd really like to be, at least for a while, and that'd make it too personal to share. Should I ever try, I'd first have to stop taking it seriously!

PCoquelin

Quote:
Nowth

... No, in a game I want to do silly, bizarre, pointless, embarrassing, whimsical things, or just walk around aimlessly, experiment; I want to play somebody who I'd really like to be, at least for a while, and that'd make it too personal to share. Should I ever try, I'd first have to stop taking it seriously!


Which is why ( see previous pages ) I proposed to take Pike for the ones beginning with the game; he just seems the most capable of such things, mmm ?

Nowth

Haha, I suppose he is - but no, that's not what I meant ;) Besides, I don't want to be Pike. I'd rather ruin old Winnowill's reputation!

PCoquelin

Why, there's another possibility : the other way 'round !
Why not play ( solo player ) the WHOLE TRIBE in move / action ?
It's now possible easily, you know...
More : you could switch between characters when unsure.

Thaïs

Quote:
PCoquelin

Why, there's another possibility : the other way 'round !
Why not play ( solo player ) the WHOLE TRIBE in move / action ?
It's now possible easily, you know...
More : you could switch between characters when unsure.



Sounds like the older FF games I used to watch people play. I never played them myself, since I didn't have a Playstation, but they are lovely to watch.

But now I must speak out in favor of my beloved MMORPGs!

Quote:
Nowth

in a game I want to do silly, bizarre, pointless, embarrassing, whimsical things, or just walk around aimlessly, experiment; I want to play somebody who I'd really like to be, at least for a while



I understand why you don't like the idea of MMORPG games, but in my opinion they're great for things like this! I play Warcraft, where I can spend hours exploring, cooking up potions, fishing, or dancing. I've even spent an entire afternoon with a group of people being pirates and quoting Monty Python. I can be a very solitary person sometimes, and there's nothing in an MMO that forces you to interact with other people all the time. Sometimes, yes, but not always.

As someone who does play MMORPG's, I wouldn't discount the genre as a whole. Yes, it would be very *very* difficult to pull off and Elfquest MMORPG, harder even than Lucas' attempt at Star Wars:Galaxies (which I loved, but left after many many changes that I disagreed with). However, there is hope! I played the original Everquest as a Wood Elf, and found like-minded RPers online who also enjoyed our beloved Elfquest. They ran the guild as a sort of Worldpool/AU tribe of Wolfriders, and it actually went pretty well. We ignored the juvenile idiots, and they ignored us.

I also played EQ2, and while my guild there was not Elfquest oriented, never discount the value of a good group of people! There are fun, RP dedicated groups out there, you just have to know where to look.

I love the ability to be my alter-egos. They're all seperate and distinct individuals, and I happen to think it's a great stress reliever.

I shall now retire to my corner, and continue to lurk about this debate. /off soapbox.

PCoquelin

MMORPG are a whole new lot of games, so why not a special Elfquest one, but the main point of this thread is exploring and discussing WHAT KIND of game would attract gamers to Elfquest games & stories & more...

[quote:0c2a90d6a1]I shall now retire to my corner[/quote:0c2a90d6a1]
In details, with explanations, so pleeeeeeze don't flee !

For instance, would a MMO-player tell us what in a MMORPG suits him/her the best, and what he/she regrets about the very concept and the way it's really played ?
How the game interest could be raised ?
Why would it be better than a console ( PS2 or anything else ) game ?

Nowth

Quote:
PCoquelin

Why would it be better than a console ( PS2 or anything else ) game ?


Because I don't have a console!

Fairlight

Use Flash! Ninety-eight percent of PCs have it installed, the system requirements are very inclusive, and Flash is an excellent development platform. The limitations Flash places on the nature of the game -- simpler gameplay and graphics -- would make it stronger, I think.

As I said before, almost all the other ideas we've had here, cool as they are, imply "Elfquest: The Transitory Cutting Edge AAA Release That Only Works On Windows PCs Bought In The Last Year or $600 Game Consoles."

Nowth

They're ideas for huge, complex games, but I don't see why they'd all need billion dollar graphics.

Sometimes it seems to me that graphics are the biggest obstacle to complexity. If you decided on a whim to incorporate the fall of Blue Mountain, or shapeshifting, or recognition in a text adventure (or Interactive Fiction) you would, on top of the programming, merely have to find the right words, perhaps add an illustration - just like the fanfic authors and artists here at the forum.

In a game with top-notch 2006 graphical whiz-bang, however, you'd have to make a whole little movie every time you wanted to try something new.

Even if it's just story-less physical simulationism of no particular "plot consequence" like I described before. The shoplifting and basilisk examples were adapted from Nethack, a game that in its rawest forms has no music and no graphics beyond ASCII characters (# | * + %). And still its gameplay is a lot more variable and sophisticated than the considerably snazzier-looking but derivative Diablo II.

That is not to say that I wouldn't by far prefer an Elfquest game with pretty graphics ;) - but I'd settle for atmospheric/artistic, and that has little to do with the technologies used.

StarShine

I agree a text based adventure would lovely, and at one point there was such a Text based game: Two Moons MUSH- but it sadly is 'dead' at the moment, we need to bring back games like that.

Nowth

They never went away, they just became "indie"... but the 'Two Moons' MUSH has been gone for a while now, hasn't it? I'm not so much into multiplayer roleplaying games and I guess I didn't really figure out how to play it - wandered about, nothing happened...

StarShine

Nowth- wanderign around on Two Moons was about all you could do-it was pretty hard to find Roleplay there. It was dying when I joined....

Perhaps as a game it's time to start up a good ElfQuest game (wether roleplay or otherwise.)

Nowth

I wasn't sure if there was anything to do without role-players around - either way, there didn't seem to be any of those left... am more familiar with single-player interactive fiction, which can have the most bizarre/elaborate plots revolving around the single human participant...

I'm not sure how hard it is to set up a MUSH, MUD or another such game... a pretty state of the art single-player text adventure is quite doable if you have the motivation and aren't completely allergic to programming... I did spend some time trying to implement seeing in low-light conditions, identifying things by their smell... Elfquest may very well be to blame for that obsession with animal senses... but that was last millennium...

*ramble* I'm bored here...

Nowth

Thaïs ~ my question is... is there any development in a MMO*** game, without fellow role-players? That is, is there a plot, a story going on, does the world change? Or does all of that depend on humans providing "plot energy"?

I used to be quite fascinated with the idea of multiplayer online games when I first read about the original MUD (Multi User Dungeon) in, I dunno, 1986-ish... but it was prohibitively expensive (international call) and I still haven't played that game (I'm assuming somebody's keeping it alive somewhere on the internet these days)... so it's not that I think multiplayer games are a bad idea...

I suppose what it comes down to for me is the creation of pretty little artificial realities, for their own sake - not as a platform for human-on-human interaction, but as something that has a life of its own, like an enchanted dollhouse...

In "Moonmist" for example - single-player - you're cast as a detective in a haunted Cornwall castle, and it amused me precisely because none of the other guests were humans - I was at the centre of the story, there were dinners, there was a ghost on the loose, but nobody real cared how if I looked like my character in real life or crud like that... yeah... I care too much what people think...


I think any Elfquest game would have to have hair blowing in the wind...

Fairlight

[quote:6fa3e311f2="Nowth"]Thaïs ~ my question is... is there any development in a MMO*** game, without fellow role-players? That is, is there a plot, a story going on, does the world change? Or does all of that depend on humans providing "plot energy"?[/quote:6fa3e311f2]

There [i:6fa3e311f2]is[/i:6fa3e311f2] said development, and it's one of the things about MMO games that can make the experience seem empty and pointless. Thoughout the game, the plot and events focus on your efforts, as the heroic protagonist, to rid the world of evil/kill foozle/find the elixir.

Problem is, there are half a million other players doing the exact same thing around you. Saving the world! 10 people crowded around the same non-player character, who is telling all of them, "Only you can help!" Queues of people waiting to slay a dragon, who conveniently is ressurrected after every death, etc.

So yeah, in MMOs, each player is really in their own little world, going from page 1 to the end of their own canned story. But they can see all the other players, in their own little worlds, but presented as if they were all in the same world. The game is made this way so that everyone can be the hero.

EVE Online is an exception, with an evolving, plotless world, IIRC, with players at the bottom and players at the top.

Nowth

Weird.

In that case, I suppose I'll keep advocating single-player games.

Foxeye

Yeah, you really have to let go of any hope of being a hero in the storybook sense in MMOs, and instead just take them for their own merit. Because you can still be a hero (or villain) in other ways, it just has to do more with how you interact with other people and what you accomplish in game terms.

Nowth

I don't really care to be the hero, but I'm into exploring artificial realities/interactive narratives. Having these things depend on people seems to remove the very qualities that make games interesting to me.

Thaïs

[quote:c4d2edd715]Thaïs ~ my question is... is there any development in a MMO*** game, without fellow role-players? That is, is there a plot, a story going on, does the world change? Or does all of that depend on humans providing "plot energy"? [/quote:c4d2edd715]

I've been trying to think how to answer to your question, and then Fairlight went and beat me to it.

I don't believe there is a hero in the MMORPG games that I play. I really don't. Especially an MMO like Star Wars, where you CANNOT be Luke Skywalker. You're just another grunt on either side (or none) of a galatic civil war, and the challenge is to survive. When I play a game, I'm there to explore, to create my own internal story, where I'm just a supporting player. I'm not the person interested in the end game, or any goal in the game, other than that of learning about a new world and everything in it.

If you accept quests, then YOUR world changes. Depending on the quest/story, your actions don't necessarily impact the world for the rest of the players, but the world as you live it does change and evolve.

An example: In the "newbie" villages in Warcraft where your character starts, everyone gets to do the same basic quests to learn how to play and help your avatar grow. All day long, the villagers make people find plants or go wack sleeping employees over the head. Once you do the quest, the villager will always thank you for your help, and propell you to the next stage of development. That doesn't affect the guy who wanders along an hour later, but it does affect you. These are the majority of the quests.

However, there are exceptions. One good example was the "war effort" on Azeroth, where each side was trying to collect the needed materials to fuel a massive military expedition. If you gave the recruiters a bundle of wool, or collected a particular herb, then your efforts impacted the rest of the players. The game was tracking which side currently had the advantage, and there was a worldwide push by players to get everyone to participate since it affected gameplay server-wide (there was a reward).

I hope that made some kind of sense. I'll keep thinking on it and post as I become more coherant. The heat has baked out my brain.

Foxeye

[quote:8e3ee87259="Nowth"]I don't really care to be the hero[/quote:8e3ee87259]

I was mostly just ramling to read myself type. :P

[quote:8e3ee87259] but I'm into exploring artificial realities/interactive narratives. [/quote:8e3ee87259]

Huh. Well, they are definitely artificial realities. I was telling my husband the other day that during the time we were really into EQ, it literally was an alternate dimension to us. It wasn't just a game. (Which is scary, but there you have it.)

[quote:8e3ee87259]Having these things depend on people seems to remove the very qualities that make games interesting to me.[/quote:8e3ee87259]

Why?

Thaïs

[quote:f1f6038aef="Foxeye"]

[quote:f1f6038aef="Nowth"]but I'm into exploring artificial realities/interactive narratives. [/quote:f1f6038aef]

Huh. Well, they are definitely artificial realities. I was telling my husband the other day that during the time we were really into EQ, it literally was an alternate dimension to us. It wasn't just a game. (Which is scary, but there you have it.)[/quote:f1f6038aef]

Indeed! I have my online friends I've been playing with for three years now, and what happens in-game is of just as much entertainment value at my dinner table (I live with two other geek/gamer-girls) as whatever happens during RL. Grin

Nowth

Thank you for trying, then. Let's see if I'm getting this right:

There are little "tasks" that are given by the computer-controlled characters and basically matter to you alone, with no influence on the game world -- and then there're bigger adventures that however aren't tightly plotted and arise out of the behaviour of (masses of) player-characters?

How do those change the game - through "accumulation", so to speak? That is, is a war effort like you described the sum of many many smaller, "ordinary" actions undertaken by players - or is there some sort of global change happening to the game itself, that is: within the software? Lemme dream something up: nasty posters appear on the walls, military police NPCs start looking for draft dodgers, the weather gets worse to support the atmosphere ;)? (Not these example-things in particular of course.)

Nowth

[quote:ceaca99c32="Foxeye"][quote:ceaca99c32="Nowth"]I don't really care to be the hero[/quote:ceaca99c32]

I was mostly just ramling to read myself type. :P

[quote:ceaca99c32] but I'm into exploring artificial realities/interactive narratives. [/quote:ceaca99c32]

Huh. Well, they are definitely artificial realities. I was telling my husband the other day that during the time we were really into EQ, it literally was an alternate dimension to us. It wasn't just a game. (Which is scary, but there you have it.)[/quote:ceaca99c32]

Yeah, of course they're artificial realities.

I meant totally artificial -

[quote:ceaca99c32][quote:ceaca99c32]Having these things depend on people seems to remove the very qualities that make games interesting to me.[/quote:ceaca99c32]

Why?[/quote:ceaca99c32]

Because I find it interesting that somebody would prepare a world with a story built into it, with a (small) population of creatures that do not actually exist outside the program. Their behaviour intrigues me; they're something new, slightly alien, almost "AI" when you're hanging your standards low...

I think it goes all the way back to the first computer I ever saw - an Apple II my dad had brought home from school. There were these wobbly black squares that you'd stick into it, and it would hum and whirr and click and out of nowhere create a world for you to run around in - freely. There was no plot that I could have understood with my twenty word vocabulary (I knew how to go North, West and South - but not East ;)) and I invariably died in the jungles of Venus or of exposure in the Himalaya - but here was freedom of a sort that Pac-Man couldn't give you. And using that freedom was kinda ...strangely... intimate, for me. It was a place where nobody bothered me. A place that existed all by itself, unlike a pen & paper RPG that was dead without humans.

PCoquelin

Funny, because it reminds me of a very early game on Amstrad - a time when all games were either simplistic action or exploring screen after screen with text action, here : the latter style - :
To get past the very first screen, it took my brother and I THREE MONTHS, because we didn't speak English very well yet and the first scene was on a ship's deck and we really were at loss at what sentence was to be typed to get further...

The sentence was : "CLIMB DOWN LADDER"

Surprised

Nowth

Grin Yeah, these games really helped me learn English! And still do, at times. They're still making them - only more literary now, more experimental. I think that's great. Not everyone likes words, of course, but thoughts and feelings, or even just physical sensations, are hard to describe with graphics...

[size=10:a504a257fd][b:a504a257fd]Shore of An Underground Lake[/b:a504a257fd]
A narrow ledge of solid rock at the southern end of a great cavern. Beyond it lies a body of water so flat, so black and tranquil, that it might be a surface of polished obsidian.

Embedded in the wall, a mirror reflects your movements: an odd smoothness in the unshaped stone.

A heavy bronze bell hangs from a stand.

[color=blue:a504a257fd]>look in the mirror[/color:a504a257fd]
You make out your face -- a bit tired and smudged, and the features look sharper than you remembered. The brown dress hangs shapelessly from your shoulders.

[color=blue:a504a257fd]>strike the bronze bell with the rock then wait[/color:a504a257fd]
The peal is deep and resonant; the surface of the lake stands up in ripples; the darkness grows (if that is possible) more dark. Even when the sound has died and the water stilled, you find yourself waiting.
Time passes.

There is a distant splash; a long silence; a repetition.

[color=blue:a504a257fd]>touch the water[/color:a504a257fd]
So cold it burns your fingers and leaves your whole arm feeling momentarily numb.

A dark shape distinguishes itself from the other darkness on the water: a small gondola without passengers, a single gondolier bent at his pole. It is progressing towards you.

[color=blue:a504a257fd]>[/color:a504a257fd][/size:a504a257fd]

("Metamorphoses", by Emily Short)

King-maker

I am a Zelda addict so this would be fun.

What company do you think is best suited to handle this?

PCoquelin

What kind of company ? I really don't know.
Honest, I very much like what Namco did with Soul Calibur 2, but the team for ICO did a wonderful work.

Oh, yes, there's one team I'd throw into it without hesitation :
the ones who realized Beyond Good And Evil

How do you feel it ?

King-maker

Well, Nintendo already has Link & alot of great games so I do not think they will fit.

I predict Sony will lose the Console Wars due to price so I would sell your stock now!

Maybe Microsoft, I would really like something for my computer as well so that could work out fairly well.

Namco makes Pac-Man so I'm not to thrilled with that.

Could we get that company that did Kingdom Hearts?

PCoquelin

It took me looooong, but I finally found Shadow of the Colossus
  (by the "Team Ico") yesterday.
If there ever exists a better birthday gift (I'm 40 years old today),
  please keep the very idea a surprise...
  ...because this game is even more wonderful than Ico !!

In Ico, it was enigmas in situation.
In Shadow of the Colossus, it's enigmas in action.

And REALLY, IF there is ever to happen an Elfquest console game,
  it SHOULD be realised by this "Team Ico" :
. Splendid and poetic backgrounds, with very realistic effects
. Calming and soothing sounds and musics (and exciting ones for action)
. The character is incredibly well rendered (and on PS2, think!) ...
  ... and he almost looks like an elf, already !
. Simple commands, with efficiency in mind
. Strong moral sense behind the story and way of building the game
. EXTRAORDINARY GRAPHIC SENSE,
  BOTH about backgrounds AND the game
  ( Think : Almost NO cinematics : Most of the shots you'll see...
    ...have been taken from the GAME itself ! )

And worse, even :
The more I play it, the more I think about Elfquest !

For those lucky ones who've found and played Ico or Shadow ...
  ...please share here what you think.

Zeratul

Shadow of the collossus is a wonderful game ! I love it ! The main character is so beautiful ,he's like an elf ! I love the ambiance ,it's magic ...

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