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What would you REALLY like to see?

LordDarkhan

[quote:2a052b935a]Who's Raenafal[/quote:2a052b935a]

Shes a wavedancer from the original wavedancer storyline. a healer and the true crown, looks just like winnowill, just more "innocent"

ElveShayde

Anyone have a pic of her?

KingJohnny

Aw come on Lord D., you can give a little more info than that. Wink It's not really spoiling anything since it's pretty clear who is posing as Raenafel. The real Raenafel was a wavedancer, true, but Winnowill was posing as her during the series.

Arthis

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ElveShayde

Anyone have a pic of her?




Skywise2

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KingJohnny

I agree with Mender and Shenshen. Let Ken and Barbie have each other! Kens and Barbies have always only wanted each other anyway.

Ken and Babie broke up. No kidding, it was on the news a few months ago. Apparently they did it so they could have a more 'single' clothing style on barbie. Cant wait to see divorce Ken :D

MultiMEDEA

Well, they were never married so I'm not sure how they could get a divorce. :D Also don't know what constitutes a more 'singles' style. Barbie always looks like she shops at Old Navy and Frederick's of Hollywood anyway. Ken's demise can easily be attributed to the most typical answer: low sales for Mattel.

Jeppe

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Skywise

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KingJohnny

I agree with Mender and Shenshen. Let Ken and Barbie have each other! Kens and Barbies have always only wanted each other anyway.

Ken and Babie broke up. No kidding, it was on the news a few months ago. Apparently they did it so they could have a more 'single' clothing style on barbie. Cant wait to see divorce Ken :D



yes, but they actually were talking about another one to take ken's place... now if i could just remember the name :? ...

KingJohnny

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MultiMEDEA

Also don't know what constitutes a more 'singles' style. Barbie always looks like she shops at Old Navy and Frederick's of Hollywood anyway.



Probably the new skank look teenage girls have nowadays. Tight, no-back-pocket jeans (i.e. all ass), tight shirts to show off their boobs with no-padded bras, maybe some action feature so she can play with her hair and look innocent as if she has no clue every guy is staring at her. Mattel is probably copying that other doll brand, Bratz or something, which seems to give the message to little girls that it's ok to dress like a slut, that the whole slut lifestyle is something to strive for. Yeah, I know, it's not any different than Barbie's original message that the glamourous lifestyle is something strive for, but I've always hated Barbies anyway, for that very reason. If I had a daughter, she wouldn't be playing with any dolls that teach her to be fake in life. That's just my opinion.

lostshard

I must say i totaly agree with you... i've got a cousin of 2 years old, and i also do not want her to learn that those things are important in life,
and also i do not think those things are good for their selfesteam while growing up, they need to make those thinks less hookerbimbo-like....
But alas i think that the sales would collapse around their short skirts, so mattel will just keep making them...

a well those are my 2 cents anyhoww

ElveShayde

I understand it now! :)

Thanks. :oops:

krwordgazer

I agree-- I never liked Barbie, and my daughter doesn't either.

BTW, how could anyone think Mender and Aroree could ever get along? Talk about a mismatch!

LordDarkhan

awww poor barbie..lol.. Im not a huge fan of her, but from what I know she has done good. In years past a lot of african american girls had nothing to say they were pretty, no images of them on tv, or in toys, and when "Black Barbie" came out, it gave a lot of little black girls positive self images and helped their self esteem

I know my mother and cousins for one really appreciated black barbie. It gave them a beautiful black image when there werent any in mainstream society/media..... plus some of them are just so damn beautiful.



I know shes in lingerie, but I think shes very classy and has that old 60s hollywood glamour about her....

MultiMEDEA

Interesting, Lord Darkhan. I, my sisters, and my cousins had almost the exact opposite experience with black Barbies (or worse, Christies). She just didn't seem very "black" to us. [Meaning: she didn't relate very much to our African American experience--to those out there going, "Huh?"] Then again she was too much of a faux Barbie for us to take seriously. She just didn't seem legit. We mostly asked for and bought the white Barbies. And, of course, the large Stylin' Hair Christie head. If there's one little black girls love to do is play with hair. If the poor thing wasn't half-bald after a month of play, we weren't doing our job! :twisted:

Zebula77

Umm, Ken? Barbie? Surprised
A tad off-topic, are we? :twisted:

scarlettdoll

i loved playing with Barbies! And I never got the idea that i had to grow up to be ms.it.

what was the original topic? I don't remember now. :)

LordDarkhan

[quote:557aa77b6d]If there's one little black girls love to do is play with hair. If the poor thing wasn't half-bald after a month of play, we weren't doing our job!
[/quote:557aa77b6d]

:D Too funny and too true, all my cousins would cute the hair use gel, hairspray....those poor dolls looked pathetic when they were through. Grin

lunakat

You know- Barbie was a bad enough influence on little white girls- what with her one inch waist and four inch bosom.

I can't believe they'd inflict her on little black girls too! Way to go Mattel! Share complex- spread it around!

Brace

Now that I think about it, I would like to see Aroree have a child. A child of recognition. The Gliders could do with a little upswing in numbers. Maybe the father could be a Wavedancer? So that it is tall and properly gifted. :D

Yes, I would love that. All the more because the last female Glider who bore a child was probably Winnowill - and that wasnt pretty at all. Its high time.

Blackbird

New things I really liked to see..

Crescent having a body again.

Rayek & Cutter becomming soulbrothers :D

A girl & Girl couple.

lostshard

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Brace

Now that I think about it, I would like to see Aroree have a child. A child of recognition. The Gliders could do with a little upswing in numbers. Maybe the father could be a Wavedancer? So that it is tall and properly gifted. :D

Yes, I would love that. All the more because the last female Glider who bore a child was probably Winnowill - and that wasnt pretty at all. Its high time.



Yeaaay that is one hell of a good idea, aroree could use something like that, it will greatly expand her character, and also some new glider babies, i like that idea verry much.......pitch it to wendy :D

KingJohnny

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Brace

Now that I think about it, I would like to see Aroree have a child. A child of recognition. The Gliders could do with a little upswing in numbers. Maybe the father could be a Wavedancer? So that it is tall and properly gifted. :D



Now that I think about it, why didn't Lord Voll notice that Tyldak was going to have a child with Dewshine? He was sure that producing children just wasn't possible anymore, yet one of his own was producing a child. Was this kept from him? Maybe it was.

MultiMEDEA

Voll wasn't the most clear-headed elf at the time and had a tendancy to see only what he wanted to see. And our dear Winnie encouraged that. Both Tyldak and Dewshine were trying to hide the effects as best they could out of shame.

I started working on a fanfic and art about a Aroree/Aurek Recognition a little while back. Hopefully it will be ready to show to everyone in a bit. It's high time the Gliders made a comback! :mrgreen:

Brace

[quote:f704f1a19b]Now that I think about it, why didn't Lord Voll notice that Tyldak was going to have a child with Dewshine? He was sure that producing children just wasn't possible anymore, yet one of his own was producing a child. Was this kept from him? Maybe it was.[/quote:f704f1a19b]

I dont get you. The moment he learned there was recognition between Dewshine and Tyldak he knew there would be a child. Or what made him shed tears in your opinion?
Maybe you need to think harder.

@ Medea
Me awaits your fanfic. Very much. Wink

KingJohnny

Or maybe thinking has nothing to do with it. Maybe I just need to re-read the story because you have just reminded me of that part. I'm currently reading that story right now, I just haven't got to that part. I simply forgot about it, but the part I am on now, of course there's no mention of it so I figured he just didn't know about it.

I haven't read Elfquest in over 5 years. And before that, I didn't read it 500 times since it first came out to memorise everything. I've only been a fan since '94

MorphineChilde

I (being a huge Nightfall & Redlance fan) would like to see them have a true Recognition. It's wonderful that Leetah was able to induce one...but I would love to see a natural Recognition between the two of them. But that's just me :)
I would also like to see Cutter & Leetah Recognize again and see Cutter watch his child grow in a peaceful, theraputic, non-traumatic way.

MrsGrizzley

Uhm, Leetah helped some, but true credit for that induced Recognition goes to Nightfall. It was her strength of will than enabled the bonding.

Mrs. Grizzley

Arfurido

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krwordgazer

BTW, how could anyone think Mender and Aroree could ever get along? Talk about a mismatch!



Aww, but that's what recognition's all about, isn't it?? Differences makes good sparks -- and the real gift is learning to know and love each other over the years Wink

ReyesLord

Now I would like to see Aurek get into the actual main storyline. I mean, he's like one of the three bodily surviving gliders! There's gotta be some story inspiration somewhere for him.

And must throw a pitch for Tyldak and Scouter becoming soulbrothers. That'd be pretty funny. First Dewshine, then Scouter, especially since the guy doesn't like him at all.

MultiMEDEA

Some character sketches to go along with my Aurek/Aroree fic. I've always thought Blevins drew Aurek too old-looking, too much like Voll. He has such a babyface in the original quest. If anyone has any color images of him please PM about a trade. Thanks!

KingJohnny

When Kahvi and Tyldak find Aurek, how long have the Wolfriders been in wrapstuff? If a few thousand years have passed, then his aged look is justified. If not, then you're right, he should look younger.

MultiMEDEA

There are plenty of pureblooded elves who haven't changed a bit in all that time. And Voll's responsibilities seemed to age him more than anything. Door, Aurek's contemporary, didn't seem very aged in the Forevergreen storyline.

KingJohnny

Well, I think we all know the answer to that: Barry Blair!

As for Voll, how old was he when he died?

Kotori

Voll was about 9000-10000 years old when he died.

KingJohnny

Ok, but we don't know how old Aurek is and we don't know exactly when Kahvi found him so it all depends on that. He must be pretty old though since he was controlling the egg all that time. Plus, if Kahvi found him thousands of years after the Wolfriders went into wrapstuff, then his aged look could be justified. It's just something we can't know for sure unless the creators spoke up.

Brace

Wonderful work, Multi. It has a touch of the original Wavedancers, I think.

MultiMEDEA

Thanks, Brace! Most appreciated. I didn't set out to a "Wave Dancers" style, tho I do like that style. Mostly It's because I have an animation bend. :) This probably won't be their final look, my color work tends to look a lot different than my pen sketches.

I'll move the rest of my progress over to the Fanfic/Fan Art forum so this one can stay on topic.

Darkelf

I want to see a EQ rp site ...monnn

Arthis

Multi, I can't see it :(

MultiMEDEA

It must be your browser, Arthis. I can see it. Here's the link:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/MultiMedea/EQAurekAroree.jpg

Arthis

Thank you very much, it's beautiful :D

ReyesLord

A very nice looking couple. But I think I'd like the idea of them Recognizing other elves better, to spread out the Glider blood as much as possible. Plus things just seem to be more angsty and action-filled when that sort of thing happens.

Zebula77

A nice couple, indeed. Wink

MultiMEDEA

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Reyes Lord

A very nice looking couple. But I think I'd like the idea of them Recognizing other elves better, to spread out the Glider blood as much as possible. Plus things just seem to be more angsty and action-filled when that sort of thing happens.



Well, as long-lived as the two are I can see them possibly Recognizing others in the future. Nothing in my story would preclude that. I see more of an emphasis on their long-standing friendship and joy over rebuilding their tribe. The reasons Glider Recognition was repressed (overcrowding, Winnowill's meddling) no longer exist so I think as soon they first see each other,**Bang-Pow!** . They're not gonna be like a Cutter/Leetah or Strongbow/Moonshade thing. I'm more of an action-adventure girl than a lovey-dovey storyteller. Not huge on angst unless it's appropriate. A little angst goes a long way and a lot of fan writers tend to overuse the device.

My take on the characters:

Aroree's still my favorite li'l sad-eyed airhead but her sojourn with the Wolfriders has really strengthened her backbone and her self-reliance. She's still on her mission with Two-Edge and Venka to find Kahvi and Tyldak and not even a two-year long pregnancy will disuade her! I can see her being more chancey than Aurek's comfortable with. The whole group will have to keep her from flying where angels fear to tread!

Aurek is one I'm still feeling out. He has enormous knowledge but, maybe little practical experience (yes, even after 10,000 years). He treasures Aroree more for their millennia-long friendship than anything else. It's gonna come as a major shock to him how territorial and deadly he can be when his newly formed family unit is threatened (and it will be!) I also see him as having a sly, dry sense of humor and more than a little love for fermented beverages. :D

Their adventures among humans (and maybe a few new elves) will be a major subplot. Since Abode is currently in its early Renaissance phase that should be a lot of fun to write!!!

ReyesLord

That story sounds like it'll be awesome! Do you know when you're going to start writing/posting it?

krwordgazer

Nicely done art, Multi. Ahh, to be able to write and draw. . . *sigh*.

I like action/adventure, too, but with plenty of in-depth emotional delving. :)

BTW, in what way is Cutter/Leetah's Recognition in any way like Strongbow/Moonshade's? Pretty much opposites, as far as I can see.

ReyesLord

I think Multi means that their simliar in their devotion/love for each other; can't have one without the other. And the fact that they always want to be together/inseparable.

MultiMEDEA

Got it in one, Rey! I see their Recognition as a deepening of what was already there. But not like the universe revolves around their neverending love for each other. And character driven plots are important to me too, krwordgazer. If you don't care what they're doing, how they feel and why, there's no point to writing the story.

I've already started writing and hope to have the first 2-3 chapters completed by this weekend. But I need to scare up an EQ beta reader before I post. My old beta moved to Texas and dropped out of the EQ scene. Unhappy

Orion

Skywise would kick someone's ass just because he's a pimp like that.

Pike would find the Speak of Longinus.

Rayek would be shanked by Cutter.

A troll would mate with a human and give birth to the first Dwarf in the World of Two-Moons.

A new tribe would be discovered that merged their bodies with giant cats instead of wolves and the Wolf Riders and the Cat Riders would go to war. We're talkin' on the scale bigger than the War with the Trolls.

Oh yeah...and more nakedness.... :twisted: Grin

Blackbird

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Orion

A new tribe would be discovered that merged their bodies with giant cats instead of wolves and the Wolf Riders and the Cat Riders would go to war. We're talkin' on the scale bigger than the War with the Trolls.

Oh yeah...and more nakedness.... :twisted: Grin



Sounds cool Grin I would also like to see that (and more naked elves)

Darkelf

naky.... Surprised

ReyesLord

Hey, Multi, be glad to hop in as Beta for you if you're still looking for one. :D I'm kinda, sorta, maybe on the lookout for my own.

jaRf

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Blackbird

Rayek & Cutter becomming soulbrothers :D


Heh. Ist that mean or would that be a nice idea? I don't really know. But it sound cool anyway. Or something like an Ember/Rayek recognition. Poor Teir. And what face would Cutter make...

TalonClaw

Wonder if Recognion has ever made incest happen or not? Maybe Skywise and Timmain will be the first to travel that path . . .
Skywise is her 10x great grandson. Ew. And all the theories about him not being related to her because his wolf blood was removed are really thin at best.
How about Sunstream and Ember or . . . if we find out that Winnie did more to Two-edge than was previously thought. Ok. will stop now, but you can see where some interesting cub ideas can develop.

KingJohnny

The elves are so few in numbers, it's sure that there was plenty of inbreeding going around. But, the closest in terms of relations were probably cousins. Cutter and Kahvi did it and she is Cutter's many times great-aunt I believe. I'm not sure if Cutter's lineage comes from Two-Spear or Skyfire.

MultiMEDEA

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Talon Claw

Wonder if Recognion has ever made incest happen or not?... And all the theories about him not being related to her because his wolf blood was removed are really thin at best.



If anything, the removal of Skywise's wolf genes makes him a closer relation to Timmain.

Recognition occurs specifically so elves don't closely interbreed. (Read the Pinis' FAQ answer on the subject.) Why is this still a question? Recognition picks out genetically ideal mates for breeding. If your DNA is too similar to someone else's then you're not ideal. Since the Go-Backs are the only tribe which consistantly breeds outside of Recognition, they're the ones that this should be a concern for.

Blackbird

I would really like to see Bowki, drawed by Wendy and having a life with the Wolfriders.

Elyon

I would really like to see One-Eye alive.
I hate the elfquest in wich he die's Unhappy and I still keep pretending that he's going to be healed in the upfollowing elfquest just like cutter. But nooo and poor clearbrook is left all alone.

I would also like to see more stories about the history of clearbrook, moonshade, and treestump because you really don't know much about them. Really like to know how they where when they where young. :D

Jeppe

Savah and Ekuar Recognizing! that would mean that Rayek's "mother" and "father" would have recognized... right? Wink

scarlettdoll

well Thitida, you produce a compelling argument. I actually found myself feeling sorry for Rayek (and I am NOT a big Rayek fan. {sorry LordDarkhan!}) so i agree with you now. :)

krwordgazer

Thitida, I'm with you on Rayek needing true love and a family. The vast majority of his problems have been caused by his consistently choosing achievement over community and connection. Problem is, he was too possessive of Leetah. But I think he's learned quite a bit since then.

Thinking of Recognition as something that just happens to an elf, is it possible that it won't happen if they want it too badly? I know certain events can trigger it (like having a conflict with your to-be-Recognized!), but does anyone think things like the internal stress of trying too hard for it might actually discourage it from happening? Look how Rayek tried to force it with Leetah.

Maybe he'd Recognize someday if he'd just let things come naturally.

LordDarkhan

Rayek needs to recognize. I have been waiting since the very first issue i ever read of elfquest for it to happen... And if it doesnt happen soon, I will have to use my "lordly authority" and take action into my own hands :?

Jeppe

nah! he needs to recognize cutter... or... did i perhaps forget some of the storyline in elfquest?

Prey-Pacer

Grin Yuo might have missed a few graphic novels here and there! Grin

scarlettdoll

Thitida-perhaps, but I personally don't care much for Rayek cuz I don't really empathize with him. I don't truly comprehend his egotism (not really the word i'm looking for--i'm meaning his desire and almost need to have the world revolving around him) and just when i was starting to forgive him his arrogance and self-centeredness, he goes and abducts Cutter's family. I can never like him after that; even tho he's sorry. (all this is hypothetical of course; i don't actively walk around saying "I hate you Rayek!" :D ) Most of the other elves have something I really identify with. Rayek is aloof from me. (for that matter, Savah is a bit aloof for/from me too) :)

Nowth

I find many of them a little aloof now... (and this is *very* "IMO")... they all grew up so fast while I was away! When KOTBW ended, I thought that was the end of it, and even *it* wasn't quite the Elfquest I could relate to. My pointy-ears had become so powerful, so morally superior in a way. All the while humiliating our hapless troll family ~ rolling them around in a ball of preserver goo was just sort of ...I dunno. I'm too serious, huh?

And the art was so cleaned up, so orderly. I missed the lovely "lushness" and organic feel of the first quest (specifically the forbidden grove and blue mountain), the vulnerability and rawness expressed and how it made the love and care between the characters seem even more precious. I can't quite put my finger on it... but I was glad Tyldak, Aroree, Ekuar and Kahvi were around in KOTBW, as the wolfriders themselves had apparently become too adult for my own stunted development. Musta been those beards, to some extent; how *do* they keep everything so neat and tidy (but then I might as well ask why the male characters have no upper lips)? So...

I want a full album done in Timmain/Timmorn flashback style, squiggly lines and hungry, emanciated, sad-eyed sylphs and all! Oh yes, my precious

And certainly Rayek and "raging fury"-mode Winnowill had sort of crossed a line. I loved the conversations Winnowill had with Leetah and others back in the first quest, tempting, mocking, manipulating,... she was cruel and twisty in her ambitions but not entirely out of reach yet (or so it seemed) and that made her an endlessly intriguing character, especially in contrast with the rather non-sneaky (and sometimes naive) wolfriders; and it was great to see how they dealt with such an unfamiliar and unwelcoming environment.

Therefore,

I want the history of the gliders, of Voll, Winnowill, troll guy and Two-Edge, of the Bird Spirit Cult and of Aroree and Kureel and Littletrill and the early chosen eight, preferably with lots of sensually confusing faery-baroque elf-goth cruft and only very little pink.

But really, I would also welcome 100 pages of soft little rabbit sun villager frolicking, if done ...in a certain way. The Heart's Way was great, it seemed to have the chiseled crispness of back then, and it and Dreamtime were coloured just ...right. Might just be my favourite EQ-in-colour: deep, natural, "calm" colours. Not like something out of cyberspace. And Skywise has never looked this adorable before. Actually I never really thought of him as adorable before. Not next to Moonshade or Dewshine...

Nowth

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Thitida-No-Chey

[Rayek] needs a family... All he ever wanted was a family. Nobody ever understood him, and he was very much a loner most of his life because noone was as "special" as he was... In having a family, he is hoping to find someone who would love him without question and who wouldn't roll their eyes at him because he was different....

[...]

I'll tell you why he is like that.... He lacks a closeness and an undoubted love, that he has never really experienced....



*sniff*

Thank you. I think what you wrote was very Elfquestish. Some fans of some things want everyone and everything to just be as bad-ass as can be. Not so with Elfquest

nomad-human

Hi all, I'm new here....though not new to Elfquest.

Things I would like to see:

1. Rillfisher alive and still w/ Treestump

2. One-Eye alive and still w/ Clearbrook

3. If I can't have that, then I'll settle for a story about Rillfisher.

4. An anvil would fall out of the sky and squish Scouter flat. He's ssoo irritating. Then Dewshine and Tyleet would stay together and be Elfquest's first f/f couple.

5. Shuna and a male elf would fall madly in love. I always thought that an elf/human love story would be very compelling and frought w/ dramatic conflict. However I think that the death by falling anvil to Scouter will happen before this does.

6. And now for what I want to have happen the most. Skywise would recognize Aroree. They have always been my favorite couple and I have been waiting for them to be together for YEARS!! I'm almost at the point where I'm willing to pay Wendy Pini an obscene amount of money to do it.

7. Timmain would just go away.. Barring that she would become a rather cute (I think) couple w/ Savah. Either way she would leave Skywise alone. Their whole romance is icky and more than a little icest like.

8. Skywise would get his wolf blood back.

9. The unnamed Go-Back that slept w/ Ekuar in the orgy scene in Quests End would recognize Ekuar. The poor guy needs a little romance!

10. Someone would remove the stick from Moonshade's rear!

11. In the next volume it would get explained why Tyleet does not have a Wolfrider name.

12. Sunstream would recognize Brill.

LivietheLurker

Well, technically Tyleet does have a Wolfriders name. It just hasn't been "translated". In our language her name is Healer's Gift.

ChristinaRaibert0

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nomad-human


12. Sunstream would recognize Brill.



I so agree with you!! :D

nomad-human

Is there anyone else out there who thinks that Skywise belongs w/ Aroree and not his great-grandmother? And does anybody know of any decently written fanfiction about the two of them? Skywise and Aroree that is, NOT Skywise and Timmain.

Jeppe

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Thitida-No-Chey

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nomad-human

Is there anyone else out there who thinks that Skywise belongs w/ Aroree and not his great-grandmother? And does anybody know of any decently written fanfiction about the two of them? Skywise and Aroree that is, NOT Skywise and Timmain.



I disagree... Skywise and Timmain have ( IMO ) much more in common than Skywise and Aroree have.... But that's just me...



Of course they have... they are family so it's obvious that they've got more in common!

You wouldn't want Suntop to recognize Toorah would you? Wink

LivietheLurker

Frankly I can't understand why everybody seems to be equating a relationship between Skywise and Timmain as incestuous.

I think I heard after 7 generations, people are no longer considered to be genetically related, even if they have a common ancestry. For example: Take a pair of siblings. They meet their respective loves of their lives and have children. Repeat this 5 times, and 7 generations have passed. By then so much different genetic material has been introduced into the family, that even if a pair of those 7th generation descendants meet and have children, it is not considered a case of inbreeding.

Admittedly Timmain is still genetically the same as when she founded the Wolfriders. But since then 10 generations of chiefs, and probably more generations of tribesfolk have passed. There's even been genetic mutations, the elves got smaller. It's not exactly as if it's next of kin we're talking here!

Zebula77

Not to mention the yearspan between them. We're talking mature woman here!

Jeppe

Seems you're right Livie (can i say after surfing the internet for two hours looking for what you said...)

But still, Timmain is almost double skywise's height! How would that look in a picture (We need to make some new legs for Skywise... Like those chinese girls do :roll: )

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Zebula77

Not to mention the yearspan between them. We're talking mature woman here!



Hear hear! Listen to the guy! What would you say if i dated your grand-mother! Surprised :twisted: Wink

Arthis

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Jeppe

Hear hear! Listen to the guy! What would you say if i dated your grand-mother! Surprised :twisted: Wink



I would say "poor guy" :roll:

Jeppe

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Arthis

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Jeppe

Hear hear! Listen to the guy! What would you say if i dated your grand-mother! Surprised :twisted: Wink



I would say "poor guy" :roll:



Exactly. That's my point (Do this mean i'll have to drop your grand-mother? Unhappy )

waifunDesired

Anyone who thinks that Timmain is too tall for Skywise.. well, Aroree's taller, too! I wish Skywise would recognize.. but I think it really needs to be some kind of a completely random twist in the plot recognition that none of us would ever suspect.. That's more Skywise's style, anyway, hey?

Elyon

I agree it would be totaly skywise if he recognize someone you wouldn't expect. I know an un expectable one he recognizes ember :twisted:

aaah poor mender and teir :(

LivietheLurker

Not to mention the Sun Folk! The Rootless Ones, who founded Sorrow's End consisted of 5 elves: Savah, her mother Hassbet, Hassbet's cousin, Maalvi, Yurek and a boy called Dreen. In other words 3 out of 5 of them were closely related, and Hassbet and Maalvi joined, we are told.

Brace

I think all the tribes are what we would call incestous (except for the Gliders perhaps, for they stopped breeding within the first 1000 or so years). To a degree that it would be impossible for us humans to survive more than three generations under the same conditions... I guess.
Elves seem to be less prone to the undesirable effects of inbreeding. Thus its no tabu. And its tabu/immoral for us only because the offspring of closely related parents... well... you know, will likely be not too tightly wrapped in their heads. Plus some other disadvantages.
In the history of humankind incest hasnt always been banned. And when I look at our european royal houses, that can be very obvious. Wink Rumours have it that its no coincidence many of the young royals here chosing their partners from us "peasants" instead from other houses. Grin You know, fresh blood and all....

ANYWAY... elves dont have this problem so our moral codex doesnt apply.

Also, I like Icetooth' idea of a recognition between Timmain and Aurek very much.

Better go now.

krwordgazer

I never had much problems with the possible inbreeding of elves in one tribe. That doesn't seem incestuous to me-- just the conjectures about close family members. When I mentioned incest as being shocking in another thread, I was referring to things like conjectures about Two-Edge and Winnowill. I really don't want to go there!

To me the relationship between Skywise and Timmain is distant enough that it doesn't bother me. On the other hand, I was bothered when Cutter and Skywise were casually talking about Skywise getting together with Ember. The blood tie wasn't there, to be sure, but the close familial relationship sure was! Surprised

But then again, I'm not an elf. :)

Brace

[quote:d204006aae]I really don't want to go there! [/quote:d204006aae]

I very much agree, Wordgazer.

Sorry, I havent thought of linguistics and their difficulties.
What I meant is inbreeding. You know, in German there is no difference between incest (Inzest) and inbreeding (Inzucht) by definition. Just looked it up, to be sure. I assumed that this is true for English, too. Both characterize the very same... phenomenon in German ~ we call it 'Blutschande'. And it includes what you implied for Winnie and Two-Edge as well what I had in my unfocused mind. Wink

Its inbreeding what happens between the elves as well as our noble houses. So those of the same blood but not relatives of the first grade joining.

Puh. This is unsavoury, no?. Best not to dwell on it. Just wanted to clarify it. Wink

Xan21

One thing I really would like to see is a godforsaken

UPDATE ON THE EQ Site, it has been two months Surprised Unhappy

Jeppe

TNC:
Yeah... i guess you're actually right that the different elf tribes has to be pretty inbred (maybe that's why they got smaller?).

Quote:
Elyon

I agree it would be totaly skywise if he recognize someone you wouldn't expect. I know an un expectable one he recognizes ember :twisted:



When you said this i was just sitting thinking about Kahvi and then <<PUFF>> it said "Skywise and Kahvi"... Why not? I would love to see them together (Dreamy eyes...)

Also, Xan21 has a very good point.

woebringer

how about the Bride from Kill Bill show up on the world of 2 moons, that would get rid of a few excess characters. :twisted: :roll:

MrsGrizzley

Actually, to be technically correct, elves do sometimes have issues with inbreeding, or rather a small gene pool that keeps getting shallower.

The Go-Backs.

The reason? They breed without Recognition. Recognition ensures that the child will be genetically superior, gifted, uniquely suited for survival, and have no defects to be carried down.

Without Recognition? You get the "never clever" Go-Backs.

Just adding my two cents.

Mrs. Grizzley

ReyesLord

[quote:c3374f9883]Without Recognition? You get the "never clever" Go-Backs.[/quote:c3374f9883]

What are those? :?

Jeppe

Remember when Kahvi said how fierce and blah blah the wolfriders fought and you should think that they had been doing it all their lives?

Well:
Since the Go-backs are in war with the trolls they must have fought ALOT more than the wolfriders, still Kahvi is impressed with how the wolfriders managed to only loose one... Now this is the difference! Go-backs loose alot more warriors because the warriors ain't born from recognition.

MultiMEDEA

Quote:
Jeppe

Remember when Kahvi said how fierce and blah blah the wolfriders fought and you should think that they had been doing it all their lives?

Well:
Since the Go-backs are in war with the trolls they must have fought ALOT more than the wolfriders, still Kahvi is impressed with how the wolfriders managed to only loose one... Now this is the difference! Go-backs loose alot more warriors because the warriors ain't born from recognition.



Actually, I read that more as a comment on the Wolfriders' fighting prowess (because of their wolf blood). The Gliders and Sun Folk have been breeding for millennia by Recognition and neither tribe is particularly skilled in fighting (compared to the Wolfriders).

LivietheLurker

But then, neither Sun Folk or Gliders had any training or experience with fighting.

One thing I'd really like to see: Who did Bearclaw, and possibly Joyleaf, Recognize before they Recognized each other? Who were those children and life-/lovemates, and what happened to them?

Jeppe

I see your point Medea, but my answer is pretty much the same as livie's... if you put a sword in Rayeks hand i think he'll fight better then "the ordinary Go-back"

Arfurido

Quote:
Livie the Lurker

But then, neither Sun Folk or Gliders had any training or experience with fighting.


The chosen eight were warriors, eh? The wolfriders had their hands full with them at their first meeting...

Jeppe

Quote:
Arfurido

Quote:
Livie the Lurker

But then, neither Sun Folk or Gliders had any training or experience with fighting.


The chosen eight were warriors, eh? The wolfriders had their hands full with them at their first meeting...



Sometimes i wish i had a memory like yours Arfurido...

MrsGrizzley

Rayek doesn't count.

He was born because the Sun Village didn't have *any* hunters. So one was born to feed the tribe by hunting when the crops were poor.

Gliders don't count because they pretty much stopped breeding entirely. Though not entirely by their own choice. (I'm still . . . . seriously upset at Winnie for her take on "Zero Population Growth") Still, except for the Chosen Eight, they're a pretty passive bunch, even if Recognition created them.

Yes, the Wolfriders are trained to fight and have the wolf blood to fight fiercely. But that's not why they came out so much better in the war than the Go-Backs. The Go-Backs were . . . DnD characters with straight 9's to 11's in stats. Some of them were lower because of inbreeding problems. The Wolfriders each had a stat average of about 15 to 16. If you've ever played DnD, then you know how much more likely the latter character is, at level 1, to survive than the former. And the difference stays that drastic the higher level the characters get.

I hate having to use alien analogies, but that's the only way I can think of to explain the quality difference.

Mrs. Grizzley

Jeppe

Are you saying that i (and those who said more or less the same as me... or something) am right??

If not, i don' get your point...

(YES, i DO play D&D)

MrsGrizzley

If you've been saying that Recognition made all the difference in surviving, then, yes, I agree. *grin*

And I'm *very* glad someone else understands what I mean when I refer to DnD stats as a means of comparison.

Mrs. Grizzley

Jeppe

AAH! so you mean that "recognition born childs" gets 15+ stats while "not recognition born childs" (unless the parents were to recognize at some other point) gets stats 10-? if that's what you mean, i got your point! 'Cause that's what i'm meaning too!!!

MultiMEDEA

On all of the above...

1) D&D (or AD&D) is too arbitrary and simplistic a system to compare to 'real' combat. One individual's hypothetical 'statistics' may mean little or nothing in the melee of war. Also, your enemy's not gonna sit around waiting for you to take your turn. It also doesn't take into account fatigue, attrition, or battle strategy. It also doesn't take into account what may be the most significant warrior attribute of all: one's motivation for fighting. That's one of the reasons why seemingly inferior forces can win stunning victories over larger armies. Their need to win was greater than their enemy's cost of losing. This was basically the reason the elves (specifically the Wolfriders) won the Palace war. Plus a little stratigic armament.

2) The point was made that "Recognition' was the determining factor for a superior fighter. Which clearly isn't true even in canon. Pike isn't a child of Recognition but his battle prowess is the equal to, or surpasses several of his tribemates (Rainsong/Redlance/Woodlock/Moonshade). Kahvi was clearly remarking on the Wolfrider savagery as did Winnowill in the Blue Mountain fight and even Voll remarked that they were more a family unit than a tribe. So they were talking about what makes the Wolfriders unique unto themselves, which is their wolf blood.

3) It's immaterial whether the Gliders were producing any babies at the time. Presumably every one of them was produced by Recognition. And except for the Chosen Eight, none of them looked like they could wield anything more deadly than a dinner fork. Recognition (among non-wolfblooded) seems to produce those closer to the elfin idea of the Firstcomers. Which, if anything, makes them less suitable to being strong warriors.

Hope that clears things up.

Jeppe

Well, i got the idea that pike was the offspring of a forced recognition... or am i wrong? Also, i believe that when Cutter was told that you could have childs outside of recognition he seemed surprised... or am i wrong?

LivietheLurker

Rain probably tried to force Recognition, but he might not have been totally successful. Pike says, in Hidden Years #5: "Careful, sire Rain! I was your first try, and look what you got!" Also, there's a caption that goes: "Rain's smile fades. He cannot truly force Recognition."

So what might have happened is that Rain tried to force Recognition, but failed. However, by a lucky fluke, Pike's mother got impregnated.

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