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Mantricker - how his name tells ;)

lunakat

RedheadEmber said: But if there at some point ended up being a situation where a character having two biological fathers would make sense - in-story - then you'd be fine with it?


You know what? I think I would be fine with it in the same way I was fine with Ember not having a baby with Tier. If it was a special event that took some special effort on the part of a healer to finagle. But not as a casual "this just happened" thing- because it hasn't been a part of the story up until now. If it was a special and unique event though? Sure. Cus like you said, it's possible.

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Say.. does anyone know if Mantricker ever recognized? We know that Willowgreen and Greywolf had a baby and passed it off as Mantricker's-right? Was that Kahvi?


Two-Spear... Mantricker really likes to sneak into your posts.

As for the child being Kahvi... well... maybe. Maybe Kahvi is the result of the Recognition between Willowgreen and Greywolf. Maybe she was born outside of Recognition to Willowgreen and Two-Spear.
Maybe the same thing as we've been discussing with Goodtree, Acorn and Lionleaper happened... >:>

Embala

Tricky Mantricker tricks lunakat ^^

RedheadEmber

Maybe he's not pleased that we keep talking about other people in his thread.

RichardPini

Raenafel said: I don't see why 3 biological parents are impossible for the elves


There's a very big difference between a threesome and three contributions to a new life's genetic material! The former, we've already seen. The latter, we never will. Because in EQ, it is impossible.

Rob

That rules out the Cutter/Leetah/Skywise jink theory too!

lunakat

Rob said: That rules out the Cutter/Leetah/Skywise jink theory too!

haha! Only the most twisted parts of our brains were entertaining that idea! Still... alas!

RichardPini said: There's a very big difference between a threesome and three contributions to a new life's genetic material! The former, we've already seen. The latter, we never will. Because in EQ, it is impossible.


Omigosh- Thank you for making sense!

RedheadEmber

Guess that answers that question.
So... who is Mantricker's sire?

lunakat

Lionleaper- right?

RedheadEmber

That's the question...
Is Mantricker the result of the Recognition we saw between Goodtree and Lionleaper in BoTC 9, or is he the result of another Recognition between Goodtree and Acorn?
In fact I've seen it mentioned that the result of the Goodtree-Lionleaper was a girl named Speedwell, who was the ancestor of Redlance, but of course even if that was true (and nothing to indicate it isn't) then Mantricker might just as well have been the result of another Recognition between Goodtree and Lionleaper.



Off-topic: How did Lionleaper get his name? Did he leap like a lion, or leap over lions?
Guess the first is more likely...

travelbug

I think Mantricker was born in a second recognition by Acorn :)

lunakat

Did she recognize Acorn? That would be odd, wouldn't it? To recognize a different elf. It usually seems that, if a mom has more than one kid by recognition, it has usually been by the same father (if he's still alive)... though I guess that Joyleaf and Bearclaw both had had recognitions before they made Cutter... and not with eachother. It would be oddly neat and tidy if Acorn happened to be her second.

Zeina

Wait, what? Joyleaf and Bearclaw had recognitions with other elves before they recognized?

lunakat

Yes. Reread Wolfrider. In Bearclaw's case, at least, the babies and the baby mamas all died.

Zeina

Damn, I really do need to reread it.

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Yes. Reread Wolfrider. In Bearclaw's case, at least, the babies and the baby mamas all died.


Yeah... but then a while back Richard made a comment on FB that was something like:
"When Joyleaf talked about how 'when it happens to you and I, old bear, it'll be your last' she simply meant that it would be his last."
When Wing recognized Behtia it was also his last.

But of course, since it was Richard writing it it's entirely possible that he was simply pulling our tails.

As for Joyleaf having other Recognitions before Bearclaw; there's nothing to indicate that anywhere...

lunakat

"Although it is the last recognition for both..."
http://elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics/index.php?s=WR&p=83

That sort of implies there have been others... for both.

And this confirms it has been one of many lifematings and babymakings for Bearclaw:
http://elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics/index.php?s=WR&p=86

"The faces of lifemates and cubs he has lost now loom before him in sharp
detail."

You are right though- there is no confirmation that Joyleaf had other babies or was recognized before. The first line does carry that implication- but it has an out, because it's just implication. The second line, about Bearclaw, is pretty clear.

RedheadEmber

So I guess Richard's old comment really was just Richard being... well... Richard...

lunakat

Well... it's possible that they left themselves an out regarding Joyleaf... and later decided that only Bearclaw had had previous lifemates and cubs.

He might have meant: "When Joyleaf talked about how 'when it happens to you and I, old bear, it'll be your last' she simply meant that it would be his last."

But, like, seriously- why would she say that if there hadn't been others? Right?

(Also- ack! 'You and me!')

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Well... it's possible that they left themselves an out regarding Joyleaf... and later decided that only Bearclaw had had previous lifemates and cubs.


Maybe that line during the Recognition scene was simply some sort of "Call-back foreshadowing"; everyone reading this would know why I'd be their last. "It'll be their last, because they're gonna die in about 20 years!" (Cutter was about 18 when he became chief, right?)

lunakat

Yeah... but they didn't say "it would be the only one for both"- they said "it would be the last" which implies others.

Also- in the second link- it specifically says he had others.

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Yeah... but they didn't say "it would be the only one for both"- they said "it would be the last" which implies others.


I wouldn't put it past Wendy and Richard to make a little trickery like that. 8-X

lunakat

good point!

travelbug

I think both Joyleaf and Bearclaw recognized other elves. I think "It is the last time/recognition for both" cant really be explained in any other way.
Why wouldn't they recognize others before (or even after) they became lovemates ?
Recognition is for making sure the child thas the best genes possible to survive, not for everlasting love.

Where does the idea that two elves recognize only eachother come from?
Maybe the present elves haven't recognized more than one other elf, but the earlier wolfriders and the firstcommers did.
Timmorn, Zarhan, Rahnee,Rella, Talen, Greywolf, Freefoot are the ones I remember from the top of my head without reading Botc.

Zeina

I always wondered about that as well. Like how the older elves recognized multiple times, maybe due to keeping up their numbers, etc.
Is it that this is no longer really required that there aren't multiple recognitions happening anymore? Is it being within the vicinity of the Palace? Actually, since the Go Backs were closest TO the Palace in the first place, they seemed to have no recognition and I realize it was partly due to Two Spear being contemptuous of it in the first place and then later, Khavi being the same. The same attitude toward healers, who also tend help along recognition.

But does being close to the Palace also cause some kind of stagnation so that recognition is no longer needed ?

RedheadEmber

travelbug said: I think both Joyleaf and Bearclaw recognized other elves. I think "It is the last time/recognition for both" cant really be explained in any other way.


It could simply be explained by the following:

A: It was the 'last Recognition' for both of them, due to ~:(
B: Bearclaw had had other lifemates and cubs before Joyleaf (possibly before shew as even born)
C: Writing "It was the last Recogntion for Bearclaw and the only ever for Joyleaf" is just too long, and "The last for both" is true too; sometimes the first is also the last.