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Teir

Thornbrake

I think Teir has a natural affinity for animals, and a learned skill of imitating their moments and "way of being." He also has a magical ability to basically instantly bond with and control animals, that even he seemed to be unaware of and that was subtle enough that the Wolfriders didn't detect it when they first met him.

He can teach the former, but not the latter.

Embala

Makes sense.

Faywolf

I think he's supposed to be ruddy complexioned, more like a Native American, not super dark but not as pale as a wolfrider, just my take on him.

Zinegirl

RedheadEmber said: Not too long after Tyldak's death Kahvi met, and recognized, Teir's father.
Because Kahvi didn't want the child she stayed around only for Teir to be born and be weaned before she quickly left. We know that she's not generally a bad mother; her treatment of Venka during KoBW seems - at least to me - quite motherly, and losing Vaya was one of the few things that ever made her cry.

When Teir was still very young (a few years at the most) Teir's father met the woman Teir would eventually come to regard as his "mother" and had a child with her: Teir's brother. This would also explain's why Teir's father said that "It's easier when Heart meets Heart." I think Teir honestly believed that his 'adoptive mother', so to speak, was his mother; he'd forgotten everything about Kahvi and only remembered when smelling that braid.
I know that Teir's "mother" and (half-)brother eventually left as well, but two things:

That seems like a possible explanation, although the woman we see as his mother does look a lot like him:

Schermafbeelding 2014-03-27 om 15.43.43

Btw I really hope that Teir isn't Kavhi's son because that could really mess up my family tree :p

Also I think that Teir looks so pale in comparison to Ember in the Lovemate Calender pic, because Ember looks so bright and red almost.

Mkal

I would speculate that Kahvi had Teir while Tyldak was still alive. It would explain her need to have the child and leave. Her heart was someplace else. It would also explain his father's comment even more.

Windkin met up with Kahvi and Tyldak after his adventure in the Forevergreen. This means that Teir was already alive.

Thornbrake

Mkal said: Windkin met up with Kahvi and Tyldak after his adventure in the Forevergreen. This means that Teir was already alive.


Actually, Windkin adventured with Kahvi and Tyldak on one of his long journeys away from the Sun Village during the Great Sleep (he discovered the Forevergreen for the first time on one such journey). I asked Wendy about this and she confirmed. After the events of New Blood he wandered and eventually ended back in Sorrow's End, where he was for years until Skywise and Leetah found him.

Zinegirl

Zinegirl said: Also I think that Teir looks so pale in comparison to Ember in the Lovemate Calender pic, because Ember looks so bright and red almost.

Here's a less vibrant version, but I agree that Teir is not as tan as he should've been:

1d642e3a288754939214cc92ec136f88

Thornbrake

A little bit of insight into Teir from Wendy herself via Facebook (SPOILERS for Final Quest #2):

Imagine yourself a loner and rugged survivor for untold centuries...imagine yourself one who has a heart capable of deepest love, passion and compassion for your own kind that has been denied all that time. Then, one day, your heart is opened by a friend of body and spirit whom you learn to trust. Little by little, you let down your guard and begin to share all the vulnerability you've kept buried for so long. Teir's strength, before, was brittle and he was almost too perfect...the best at whatever he did. To be truly strong is to know yourself entirely. To do that, sometimes you have to fall apart. That's where he is now - and Recognition is surely aiding the process. What will emerge on the other side? Stay tuned.

Niphredil

Just re-read BoTC 17 or so, and the following occured to me..
Oakroot / Tanner was an animal-bonder, too... perhaps a connection somehow? Can't remember I read about any other bonder elsewhere in the series.

travelbug

I was reading the very long "Final Quest Predictions" tread and someone wrote about a couple of coments on Wendy's facebookpage. I gave up finding it again for copying, but it was somebody writing to Wendy and saying more or less this: Teir looks great in the new drawings. He looks so much like his parents.
Doesn't that sound like Teir's father is somebody whom is already introduced ?

I keep thinking Teir's eyebrows, eyes and hair look a lot like Vaya and Kavhi, and his nose, cheekbones and jawline resemble Tyldak's.
However, if that's the case, it doesn't make much sense for them leave him on the plains.

Embala

Teir's father shows in a post above, @travelbug (by Zinegirl, March 27).

Teir told Ember about his family in the Hidden Years storyline, here
http://elfquest.com/comic_viewer.php?fd=/gallery/OnlineComics/HY/HY23/_Hidden%20Years%20-%2023_page=1#_14#
and on the next page.
And somewhere in Wild Hunt, when I remember right (too late to look it up tonight).

At least those are the ones Teir considers to be his parents ...

Dreamcat

He was way cooler when he was the aloof mysterious stranger. Now he´s turned into a whiny wimp.

travelbug

If Wendy and Richard is going with the Kahvi is Teir's real mother version (Final Quest. #1 looks a bit like it) the story will have to be changed and twisted to fit in.
And if this remark on Wendy's facebook is something to go by, Wendy's Teir looks like both his parents, I think it means Teir's real father is someone else than the father he remembers as well.
he could have grown up with the familiy he remembers and know for unknown reasons.

For the record, I was always hoping he was a part of an unknown tribe of elves from plains, descendants of the gobacks. I do like the old story better.

Thornbrake

Dreamcat said: He was way cooler when he was the aloof mysterious stranger. Now he´s turned into a whiny wimp.


Have you read issue #3 yet? He's definitely evolving into a stronger character. Although from the cover of issue #4, it looks like he'll be the damsel in distress again.

Dreamcat

Thornbrake said: Have you read issue #3 yet? He's definitely evolving into a stronger character.


Yeah, I have. But in terms of coolness he´s still far from how he used to be. Granted, his current condition may toughen things up for him now, but that´s no excuse for his whining in issue #1 and #2.

Thornbrake

Dreamcat said: Yeah, I have. But in terms of coolness he´s still far from how he used to be. Granted, his current condition may toughen things up for him now, but that´s no excuse for his whining in issue #1 and #2.


Yes, Teir definitely has issues. But interestingly, I like him more now than before. I thought he was borderline Mary-Sue-ish. Everything the Wolfriders could do, he could do better (hunt, stalk, stay silent, mask his scent, etc.) plus he had his animal control power. Teir with a few more character flaws is a lot more interesting to me.

RedheadEmber

Thornbrake said: Although from the cover of issue #4, it looks like he'll be the damsel in distress again.


Maybe he just can't swim. Considering how he's spent most of his life on the plains it wouldn't be so strange.

I'm trying to find the issue where Teir tells Ember about his family, seem to remember that he actually looks quite a lot like his father in that.

Embala

Embala said: Teir told Ember about his family in the Hidden Years storyline, here
http://elfquest.com/comic_viewer.php?fd=/gallery/OnlineComics/HY/HY23/_Hidden Years - 23_page=1#_14#
and on the next page.
@RedheadEmber Still HY14 ... or do you look for the Wild Hunt scene?

RedheadEmber

Yeah... I just realised that I could've just followed your link...
Guess I was wrong about Teir looking a lot like his father in that story.

RedheadEmber

Two Things:

Slight spoilery for Final Quest #4

First of all, for some reason I was convinced that if Teir is Kahvi's son, then his father would have to have dark hair, because... Kahvi has dark hair.

Second of all; issue#4 has caused the speculation to arrise that Teir might be the son of Kahvi and Tyldak, because Windkin Refers to Someone with his and Kahvi's shared blood and having Teir be the son of Kahvi and Windkin would just be too weird.
But... what if Teir really is the son of Kahvi and Windkin? Imagine Dewshine's reaction upon finding out:
"Oh! So that's why you reminded me of Windkin, you're his son. Wait... you're my grandson!"

I... still think it's more likely he's Kahvi and Tyldak's son though. The other option would just be pretty confusing.

travelbug

I like the idea of Teir being Kavhi and Tyldak's child :)
But I dont see how it all fits together.
If his age in HY is something to go by, and he's spent eight eigths of eights alone on the plains, that means Kahvi and Tyldak left him for some reason. (Maybe Wendy and Richard is changing this part of the HY story)
If Teir is sired by Windkin, then I think he must be younger and maybe born after Kahvi and Windkin parted ways after Tyldak's death.
Windkin asks Kahvi about the one, not he or she or naming Teir, suggesting that Windkin doesn't know whether it's a son or daughter Kahvi had.

RedheadEmber

I think it basically came up because of the theory that Teir might be Kahvi's child, and Windkin mentions someone with his and Kahvi's blood. Since - at least to us humans - having Teir be the son of Kahvi and Windkin would be rather weird (because it would mean Kahvi shacked her (dead) lovemate's son), so for the 'shared blood' thing still to be in work it was pretty simply: Just assume that Teir (or whoever Kahvi's potential child might be) is not Windkin's son but Windkin's (half-)brother; this way they'd still be "sharing blood".

The way I undersood it Teir is possibly Kahvi and Tyldak's son, born after Tyldak's death.

Embala

RedheadEmber said: I... still think it's more likely he's Kahvi and Tyldak's son though. The other option would just be pretty confusing.
Guess both can be possible ... or Wendy surprises us with something totally different.

Not too "weird" for EQ - not weird at all. Kahvi liked diversity in her furs. She's not necessarily monogamous after Tyldak became the love of her life. We know that even close lovemates share.

RedheadEmber said: (because it would mean Kahvi shacked her (dead) lovemate's son)

Or - she might have "shacked her living lovemate's son" ... because they recognized! Kahvi RECOGNIZING would be a real surprise for me.

:D at Dewshine's possible reaction.

RedheadEmber

Of course Windkin and Kahvi recognizing sorta leaves a question: Why didn't Windkin bother telling about it? Not like he'd be ashamed or anything... I think...

But just imagine the genealogy if he is the son of Kahvi and Windkin.

Moonmoss

elfquest.com/comic_viewer.php?fd=/gallery/OnlineComics/EQFQ/_Final%20Quest_page=1#_13#

Just had to add this page here to create more speculative hubbub. Lets throw in the "rootlesness factor". All elfs so far suggested to be Teir's birth parents are currently or have at some part of their lives been rootless, solitary figures. Just have fun...Rayek's pretty solitary too, isn't he? ;) Though that line of thought would be bit of a repetition after/before Venka...

I haven't read the 1-4 FQ issues though, so I've missed out stuff. So far my strongest guess would be Tyldak/Kahvi or Tyldak/some previously unknown female character.

Would absolutely LOVE for Dewshine to find out she's a granny, though.

Dreamcat

I don´t get that talk about recognition. Why would that be necessary at all? Kahvi has had children all along without "bothering" about recognition. Also I can´t recall even one Go-Back who actually recognized.
I see why many people would love to know Teir being Kahvi and Tyldak´s child. Because they were lovemates, it would be just so romantic if they had a child too, while any outsider dad would kind of disturb that picture and also the comic gives those hints. But I don´t think this couple needs any offspring and actually I don´t like the idea of Mr. Whiny being the child of not one but two bad ass characters (that would be irony).

Since people wonder about how and when Teir could have been conceived with Kahvi being his mother, remember that there was this freaking long journey Kahvi took on her own (I think in Kahvi or HY) when she traveled from one continent to the other.

ChristinaRaibert

Teir said in HY that his parents weren't Recognized - although he might just be referring to the two who raised him, and not necessarily his birthmother (my guess is that before he scented the braids, he had no recollection of Kahvi whatsoever and believed that the couple who raised him were, indeed, his biological parents). However if it's the case with Kahvi, then he'd most likely be Tyldak's son (just because I can't imagine her hooking up with anyone else after his death... unless it was dictated by Recognition.)

RedheadEmber

Dreamcat said: Since people wonder about how and when Teir could have been conceived with Kahvi being his mother, remember that there was this freaking long journey Kahvi took on her own (I think in Kahvi or HY) when she traveled from one continent to the other.


That was in Kahvi, on her way back after attempting the have a child with Cutter thing. However, when she's about to die in a blizzard (before bonding with the wolf) she specifically states that she "glad there isn't a fawn."

Dreamcat

RedheadEmber said: That was in Kahvi, on her way back after attempting the have a child with Cutter thing. However, when she's about to die in a blizzard (before bonding with the wolf) she specifically states that she "glad there isn't a fawn."


Maybe she just changed her mind? Happens with Kahvi. Or maybe she didn´t quite decide it but it just happened and thus she left him behind because her mind was already set on something else (I think it was getting the piece of palace).

RedheadEmber

I'm not sure how that would work. She travelled to the New Land, attempted to cut Cutter free of his cocoon and have him impregnate her, in reality she cut out Nightfall and they had a bit of a catfight, in the more-actually-fighting-less-bitchy-hair-pulling meaning. Then she travelled back towards the Go-Backs, where she almost died in a snowstorm, causing her to claim she was glad not to be pregnant, because she thought she was going to die. She didn't though, instead she was sort of 'rescued' by a wolf (her new wolf friend) and returned to the Go-Backs.

As for Teir's current situation: Can he swim?

Tam

Dreamcat said: I don´t get that talk about recognition. Why would that be necessary at all? Kahvi has had children all along without "bothering" about recognition.


Oh, you already know the answer to this. ;) Recognition is the "legit" form of bonding. It's the concrete evidence that two elves are soulmates. It's romance wrapped up in a little bow and exchanged like a box of chocolates. Despite the examples of Recognition that didn't go that way (Tyldak/Dewshine, Bearclaw's/Joyleaf's/Zarhan's/Timmorn's numerous Recognitions, Dodia/Door) and the elves we have who are lifemates without Recognition (Nightfall/Redlance, ish?, Dewshine/Scouter, Treestump/Clearbrook), Recognition is still seen as this magical ideal that all couples should strive to. It makes a couple more legitimate, more special, more romantic. Kahvi and Tyldak were clearly lifemates, at least functionally if not by name, but imagine how much more ~*~romantic~*~ it would be if they Recognized!

Sorry, everyone. ;) I don't mean to pin that on anyone in particular...I think it's just a figment of society, and Recognition is seen almost akin to marriage, and something that can fix any differences or conflicts. We see this in holts all the time...players who are afraid to develop relationships with others because what if their character Recognizes? Recognition is one of the first things many games discuss from the get-go. Players wait impatiently on a list for their characters to Recognize. It plays right into our love of silly romantic movies and perfection and fate.

Embala

Tam said: Recognition is the "legit" form of bonding. It's the concrete evidence...


Or - it's simply the savest (not the only) way to get a child with good genes.

Or - it would be so unlikely for a couple - or a single elf - that it would be interesting how s/he deals with it. I can imagine that Kahvi rejects a child of Recognition - because it "comes of magic". Because she had no choice of her own.

As far as I'm concerned I dont have an overerly romantic view on Recognition - not in general.

Tam

Embala said: I can imagine that Kahvi rejects a child of Recognition - because it "comes of magic". Because she had no choice of her own.


She could also deny Recognition. If her hatred of magic is that strong, I don't really see her submitting to it...especially after we see how Ember just flipped the switch.

Also, I DID say that I'm not pinning what I posted on any single person...just making a generalized observation.

Embala

She CAN.

Or she simply gives in to the passion of the moment , fulfills Recognition and THEN is at odds with the happenings, feeling betrayed or "forced" by magic.

And about Ember ... if she and Teir would have had at least some safe moments we's probably seen them lost in the dance of life. ^^ Ember HAD TO make a decision ... and she had the time to think about.

Different elves, different situations, different results ... there are so many possibilites. And only speculation ... What-Ifs and MayBes on my side. :)

Dreamcat

I think Kahvi and Tyldak are a pretty kick ass couple the way the are. They are bad ass, they don´t need fancy stuff like recognition or kids. And frankly, the idea of Kahvi recognizing hits on my gut, no matter the partner. We still haven´t seen ANY Go-Back recognizing, so I rather think they just flick stuff like that away like a lint on the shoulder and go on making babies however the hell they want it. Every Go-Back knows ALL Go-Backs have perfect genes. >:D

Embala

Dreamcat said: so I rather think they just flick stuff like that away like a lint on the shoulder and go on making babies however the hell they want it.

Sounds pretty much like Kahvi ^^

Niphredil

I just re-read FQ1 (again..),
in the scene where Teir remembers being abandoned you see a silhouette of Kahvi. BUT it is i
Kahvi in the clothing she was wearing in the Original Quest. Ergo: Tyldak could't be Teir's father, he was born way before Kahvi met Tyldak.

RedheadEmber

But he couldn't have been born during OQ either, we'd have seen him. Kahvi didn't leave the Frozen Mountains until three years after OQ, during most of that time she was pretty busy being pregnant with Venka. So unless Venka and Teir turn out to be twins... which wouldn't work either.

Niphredil

True..
But what if Teir's father (and/or others) left with him before the start of OQ? Or at least before the Wolfriders found the Go-Backs?

RedheadEmber

Would they? While the whole Pull of The Palace thing was going on.

Dreamcat

Niphredil said: But what if Teir's father (and/or others) left with him before the start of OQ? Or at least before the Wolfriders found the Go-Backs?


That makes little sense to me. I mean, even though Teir is immortal, it would still make him damn OLD.

lunakat

Well, kahvi was wandering for 10,000 years while the Wolfriders's slept- that's a lot of time for anything to happen.

Dreamcat

Kahvi was also wrapped in wrapstuff with Tyldak for quite a long time.

Embala

Dreamcat said: Kahvi was also wrapped in wrapstuff with Tyldak for quite a long time.


Depends on how long it took for Chot to return to the Frozen Mountains ... and come back to Sorrows End with Zey.

Got the notion that this chief didn't waste time to ambush the Sunvillage. Some years? A decade? ... or only weeks?

travelbug

Teir has lived his life on the plains, but he could have been born someplace else. Or it could be snow at the plains in wintertime.

RedheadEmber

Embala said: Depends on how long it took for Chot to return to the Frozen Mountains ... and come back to Sorrows End with Zey.

Got the notion that this chief didn't waste time to ambush the Sunvillage. Some years? A decade? ... or only weeks?


I figured Kahvi was only in wrapstuff for about a year. Chot returned and the Go-Backs went directly to Sorrow's End.
A year seems like a rather long time actually, but I'm sure it's pretty much stated in the comics somewhere, so... maybe Chot just got lost or something.

travelbug

In the comic it is written that it takes three eights of days from the gobacks decide to leave after Chot comes back until they reach the end of the tunnel of golden lights. Plus another day or two to cross the desert.

Maybe as little as around 3-4-5 months?

Embala

A view on Teir's magical skills:

Thornbrake said: So, Wendy elaborated just a little bit more about this scene on Facebook, and turns out it's because she doesn't like the "mind control" aspect of how Teir's powers have been portrayed previously, and she's attempting to show it in a different light.

Here's what she said:
There's always been some confusion about how Teir's powers work. I, myself, have never been a fan of "animal control" powers. In earlier stories in which Teir appeared, the depiction of his influence over animals made me uneasy. Mind control, to me, is heinous (hence villainous Winnowill). Teir's powers in FQ Ish 3 are depicted as working in harmony with the animals' natural instincts...letting them choose their behaviors, as it were. There will be more fine tuning of this as the story progresses.


Thornbrake

Teir's profile has been updated with the events of Final Quest #5.

lunakat

Awesome possum Thornbrake!

Looking back at the comments about Kahvi and recognition- I'm willing to bet she did recognize a long time ago. She just has probably popped out a number of kids before or since, and never thought much of it. I bet recognition, for Go Backs, is just kind of a 'huh- that's interesting' moment- but overall, not that big a deal.

RedheadEmber

Nice updating. Was actually just expecting a addment (I know that's not a word!) towards the end saying something like "Recently it has been revealed the Teir is the son of Kahvi and Windkin."

Just a thought: Over at the Issue 5 thread there was - briefly - some talk about what Teir's life would have been like if he had been the girl ("Teira") that Kahvi wanted. I've been thinking about something else:
What would his life had been like if Windkin had stuck around for the duration of Kahvi's pregnancy and when Kahvi made it clear that she didn't want a boy had kept Teir?
Of course Teir's life wouldn't have been so troubled by abbandoning, what with him growing up in Sorrow's End.

WhiteMist

I wonder why she prefers a girl over a boy that much?

RedheadEmber

I think it might be in part because maybe she wanted the child to eventually take over chieftess duties with the Go-Back - for all she knew Venka could be dead - and given that her only experience with a male Go-Back chief was Zey it's possible her judgement was a bit clouded.
Or... maybe it's just because it's Kahvi we're dealing with!

lunakat

It makes sense if she wanted to groom a girl to be chief.

Delhya

RedheadEmber said: and given that her only experience with a male Go-Back chief was Zey it's possible her judgement was a bit clouded.


That and Kahvi's dad was only a tad Cray cray. ;) So male elves did not start off on a positive note in her life. Maybe a little of her subconscious at work there?


RedheadEmber

Delhya said: That and Kahvi's dad was only a tad Cray cray. ;) So male elves did not start off on a positive note in her life. Maybe a little of her subconscious at work there?


So basically the majority of Kahvi's experience with male chiefs has been nutters. Of course she also had some experience with Cutter as chief, but maybe she thought he didn't count being a Wolfrider chief.

Of course it might very well end up that Teir becomes the father of the next Wolfrider chief.

WhiteMist

Funny isn't it, that in a way Khavi might be able to establish her 'trophy' at last - the one she alway was so eager to get her hands on. To make the Go-Backs "proud" again and something to "go back" to.

What I'm referring to: as the Little Palace and the 2nd Egg of Memory didn't work out, in a third attemp to serve as such, she went all the way to another continent to fetch her a trophy offspring from Cutter to rule the Go-Backs and Wolfriders as one tribe again.

Now, one generation futher, her and Cutter's cubs are on the edge to have this one heir she was striving for. Her revealing as the mother at this very point and her "help" to rescue Teir from drowning, has everything to do with this. At least it would match her character's motives. Kahvi would never act to serve on it's own purpose without gaining something out of it. It's just not her. Even while being in the "spirit world".

That's why she never showed herself before to any other elf as a spirit. Why would she? There was no reason. Now she has one!

BUT, the quality of the motives of the gaining may have change! Her gaining might not serve her SELF only, but the greater good for ALL the elves.
Again, this would be in line with her character development, which is in line with the whole development of the saga "ET's crushing on a savage planet to learn something from it"-thing.

At first her trophy was an actual thing, an object as you will: the Palace, the Little Palace, the Egg of Memory. For her OWN tribe, not for other tribes.
Then, after the revealing of her origin as a gift and a set-up from Aurek ("this is what she needs"), being a chief's daughter of the Worfriders, her object of projection shifted to a less dense thing: a person. A combination of: to Serve and to Have. TWO tribes, not just her own. To unite. Still this idea had a profound definition. A connection to what defines HER.

Now, being the catalyst of events, she serves ALL elves, for a difinition without restricion. Serve on it's OWN perpose. Define the outcome of a situation on it's pure intention.

Revealing not just herself as the mother, but also the identity of the father means, ALL tribes are now represented in the offspring from Cutter. The Elf and Kin-seeker, the chief who is called to unite all elvin tribes on the World of Two Moons, has now the most keen trophy in his hands: the ultimate symbol of what he IS. Thanks to Khavi.

Korafey: Wavedancer + Sunfolks
Offspring to-be : Wolfrider + Go-Back + Glider

How beautiful is this! And how well developed by Wendy to come to such a conclution!!

Delhya

Random thought speaking of Kahvi as a spirit... Why was Tyldak not with her? I know he is not a Go-back but still they were pretty close. Unless he is catching up with all the dead Gliders or maybe hunting for Rayek who holds Winne's spirit still???

lunakat

I love your comments, Dellhya- they are so thoughtful.

Delhya said: Random thought speaking of Kahvi as a spirit... Why was Tyldak not with her?


He was with her. He was in his original form.

krwordgazer

Kahvi's father treated her like dirt her whole life, and it ended with the two of them trying to kill each other. To all intents and purposes, Two-Spear did kill Kahvi-- but for the magic pool. I don't think Zey had anything to do with it-- she was willing enough for Zey to lead until he abused the role.

I think Kahvi never wanted a boy child because of her father-- and when she did have one, she could not love him, because of her father. Perhaps she was even subconsciously seeking to get even with Two-Spear through Teir.

Delhya

AHHH! So he was in both scenes >feels silly< 8-> I am become blind in my old age lol

RichardPini

Delhya said:
AHHH! So he was in both scenes >feels silly< I am become blind in my old age lol


Nah - it's a subtle thing. Remember, there have only been a couple of glancing mentions of Tyldak's original Glider form over the entire telling of Elfquest, and those were a long time ago.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

RichardPini said: Nah - it's a subtle thing.


^_^ Thanks for that. I am still going to blame it on a busy schedule and having read it in the parking lot of the comic store... :\"> I did not want to wait til I got home after errands some hours later.

Future plan More EQ reading time set aside for sure!!! As well as some drawing. ^_^

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

WhiteMist said: Korafey: Wavedancer + Sunfolks
Offspring to-be : Wolfrider + Go-Back + Glider


Well... if you wanna be technical it's:

Korafay: Wavedancer + Sunfolk/Wolfrider
Cub-to-be: Sunfolk/Wolfrider + Go-Back/Glider/Wolfrider

Basically; only one parent (Brill) is completely of one tribe. They're like the ultimate bridge-children.

travelbug

Oct 10, 2014

image

Cub to be :)

WhiteMist

Oct 10, 2014

WhiteMist said:
Korafey: Wavedancer + Sunfolks
Offspring to-be : Wolfrider + Go-Back + Glider



RedheadEmber said:
Well... if you wanna be technical it's:

Korafay: Wavedancer + Sunfolk/Wolfrider
Cub-to-be: Sunfolk/Wolfrider + Go-Back/Glider/Wolfrider



I see wat you mean. I was referring to it in a more general way, to stress the quality that all 5 tribes where represented in Cutter's grandchildren (+ a human if you will), not so much the quantitive specifics. On that you are right of course. My appoach was a more philosofical one.

Although you could deliberate about the fact that Sunstream draw the Sun Folk-blood to himself and Amber the Wolfblood, since he is immortal.
And Winnowill sucked the Wolfblood out of Windkin's blood.. so there you go...





RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

WhiteMist said: Although you could deliberate about the fact that Sunstream draw the Sun Folk-blood to himself and Amber the Wolfblood, since he is immortal.


Sunstream may not have the wolfblood, in the sense of whatever it is that makes wolfriders mortal, but he certainly has the wolfspirit.
Same for Teir. Let's have a look at his parents:
True Windkin's wolfblood was removed, rendering him immortal, but I'd say he still got some of that wolfrider mentality. In HY2 Savah mentioned how Windkin favoured Dewshine in size and spirit.
Kahvi is the daughter of either Two-Spear, or Greywolf - we don't really know - both were, as far as I'm aware, of the more wolfey type. Kahvi might have somehow lost her wolfblood in the Magic Pool, but she definitely still has that "wolf mentality" (and possibly a bit of the crazy too).
So basically Teir is the son of a half-Glider-half-Wolfrider, who lost his wolfblood, but still has the mentality, and a Go-Back, who was born a Wolfrider, who lost her wolfblood but still has the mentality.
Some of the "wolf-traits" Teir still have, even if whatever trace of wolfblood he might have inherited from Kahvi is so faint that he's still immortal, or as good as; I'd argue that for the elves who live out in the World, with the dangers that bring, the lines between true immortality and extreme longlivety might be somewhat blurred.
Basically what I'm trying to say is it's not so much the blood ie: is an elf mortal or immortal, but the spirit ie: does an elf act like a wolfrider, which is important.
Back to Sunstream: Sure he mostly acts rather Sunfolkey, when he doesn't go into "Teenage Rebellion Mode" and decides to temporarily quit his task as 'The Link' to go on a hunt, and then go on to purge that ancient pool of bad magic that gave us Madcoil. Or... decides that he really doesn't like the idea of his newborn daughter becoming the breakfast of some random seamonster.

WhiteMist

Oct 10, 2014

So we see how well blurred the development of "uniting all the tribes" proceeds...
The idea (1), as well as the manifestation (2), as well as the proces (3) witch it takes to manage to.

That's what I like about Elfquest, that underneath you can feel the patterns steering events in a natural way. A kind of rational (but beautiful) blueprint which blossoms in the natural world. I still am convinced Wendy planed this long ago: that Cutter somehow will get offspring which reflects his destiny to unite all the tribes.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: Kahvi is the daughter of either Two-Spear, or Greywolf - we don't really know


Kahvi is Two-spear and Willowgreens daughter I believe it was confirmed by Richard in another thread on here somewhere. I do not know if it was Recognition or not. Also it is not noted on her Who is Who info or that she is Teirs mom yet.

I do want to know more about the cub Willowgreen and Greywolf conceived through their recognition and they kept secret from Two-Spear that it happened.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Delhya said: Kahvi is Two-spear and Willowgreens daughter I believe it was confirmed by Richard in another thread on here somewhere.


I always thought it was a confirmation in the sense of she was raised as Two-Spear's daughter, but whether he really was her sire we don't really know.



Delhya said: Also it is not noted on her Who is Who info or that she is Teirs mom yet.


Suppose the people in charge of updating have been busy.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

http://www.elfquest.com/forums/discussion/5442/teir-s-brother-kahvi-s-son/p2

okay Chasing my tail trying to track that down, SOOOOO that means it is still up in the air lol ^_~ The link above is another thread that mentions it. So back to the old fashion way and rereading stuff!!

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

Still LOOOOVE the picture so much @Travelbug

elfeneyes

Oct 10, 2014

When was he Yun's lovemate? As far as I remember, Yun went after Mender when Ember was leaning more towards Teir

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Delhya said: http://www.elfquest.com/forums/discussion/5442/teir-s-brother-kahvi-s-son/p2

okay Chasing my tail trying to track that down, SOOOOO that means it is still up in the air lol ^_~ The link above is another thread that mentions it. So back to the old fashion way and rereading stuff!!


I thought that with the revelation that Teir's parents - those he referred to when telling Ember about himself - weren't his blood parents, but his adopted parents, it has become pretty clear that Teir's brother is indeed not Kahvi's son. Teir's brother is not related to Teir by blood, but through adoption.



elfeneyes said: When was he Yun's lovemate? As far as I remember, Yun went after Mender when Ember was leaning more towards Teir


True. But during the time when Ember was still somewhat undecided about whether she wanted to be with Mender or with Teir Yun basically played the role as Ember's distractor.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: I thought that with the revelation that Teir's parents - those he referred to when telling Ember about himself - weren't his blood parents, but his adopted parents, it has become pretty clear that Teir's brother is indeed not Kahvi's son. Teir's brother is not related to Teir by blood, but through adoption.



@RedHeadEmber I was just using it as reference for Kahvi not Teir. I am curious about his adoptive parents and adopted brother but that was not the purpose of linking that thread.

There were a couple posts on the second page of a Krwordgazer quoting Richard. But as I said I am chasing my tail because it seems to be a dead end. The link he posted as a reference says page not found. This was from 2007 so not surprise the link is gone.

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: I always thought it was a confirmation in the sense of she was raised as Two-Spear's daughter, but whether he really was her sire we don't really know.


That would make the most sense. And so, the line of chiefs would really have continued with Cutter- not Kahvi.

travelbug

Oct 10, 2014

@Dehlya thank you :)
I was imagining this cub so clearly, I feel cheated now 8->

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

Awww @travelbug Time will tell ^_^

WhiteMist

Oct 10, 2014

Teir has of couse now a (half)siter, Venka! Would like to see them to meet in short notice.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Delhya said:
@RedHeadEmber I was just using it as reference for Kahvi not Teir. I am curious about his adoptive parents and adopted brother but that was not the purpose of linking that thread.


But the thread was about whether Teir's brother would be Kahvi's son. I'd just learned that Kahvi might or might not be Teir's mother, and I knew that Teir's mother had left with Teir's brother. Of course at that time I didn't know that the one Teir referred to as his mother, was not the one who gave birth to him.




lunakat said: That would make the most sense. And so, the line of chiefs would really have continued with Cutter- not Kahvi.


Technically the Line of Chiefs continued with Skyfire and not Two-Spear. If you're talking about a potential bringing the bloodlines back together child, well:

Suppose for the child Kahvi wanted with Cutter she was thinking of her as a Go-Back chieftess. Cutter already had his heir.

The cub Ember and Teir will - hopefully - have one day. I'm guessing a Wolfrider chief(tess), being the child of one chieftess is a bit more important than being the grandchild of another, who btw spent most of her life not really acting like a chief.

Thornbrake

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: Suppose the people in charge of updating have been busy.


Kahvi's profile is updated!

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: Technically the Line of Chiefs continued with Skyfire and not Two-Spear.

They were brother and sister- and Two Spear was chief before he left, so... if Two Spear had a child- that child would continue the bloodline. Kahvi may not have been his actual child, however, since his lifemate recognized his best friend and hid it from him.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

Kahvi traveled back with Tyldak to the Frozen Mountains in search of new trophies. She sought the Little Palace, the Egg of Six Spheres, and even a cub from Cutter. During her journeys, she learned that she was the daughter of long-dead Wolfrider chief Two-Spear’s and his mate, Willowgreen–though the possibility remains she may have been sired by Graywolf. She embraced her Wolfrider heritage and bonded with a wolf.


HaHA answered and yet not LOL ~_^ This is from Kahvi character info. >ends rant for now< ^_^

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

lunakat said: They were brother and sister- and Two Spear was chief before he left, so... if Two Spear had a child- that child would continue the bloodline.


But the "Blood of [X number] chiefs" line - the one that ulmately ended with Cutter and Ember (and maybe Ember's and Teir's child if they ever have it) got continued through Skyfire.

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: But the "Blood of [X number] chiefs" line - the one that ulmately ended with Cutter and Ember (and maybe Ember's and Teir's child if they ever have it) got continued through Skyfire


Skyfire and Two Spear were brother and sister. She only became chief because he abdicated and took his followers with him. If he hadn't done that, his children, not hers, would have continued the line of chiefs. So when he left, it split. Does that make sense?

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Sure. But I'm not thinking so much about what would have happened if... but about what actually happened.

I wouldn't say Two-Spear abdicated, though. In his mind his Group were the real Wolfriders. He still calls himself "Blood of Three Chiefs" (and Skyfire actually honours that by being "Blood of Four Chiefs" instead of "Blood of Three Chiefs", she might as easily have chosen to completely ignore Two-Spear in the Chiefs' line.)
In a way you could argue that if/when Ember's and Teir's child gets born it'll be both "Blood of Twelve Chiefs" (from Ember's side) and "Blood of Six Chiefs" (from Teir's side). Except, of course, for the fact that Two-Spear took the "Blood of Chiefs" title from Kahvi, and Kahvi probably wouldn't let a 'disappointment of a lad' be "Blood of Chiefs".

travelbug

Oct 10, 2014

If Dove, the oldest daughter of Prey-Pacer, had lived, she would have been chief..
(Blood of ten chiefs, cant remember if it is in Winds of change or Dark hours)

I read the old Elfquest roleplaying book, it has a section about what happened to Two-Spear's tribe after the split of the tribe. Completely different story from the one Wendy and Richard chose to go by in the end

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

Well, whether he let her have the title or not- Kahvi actually is blood of Wolfrider chiefs- and so are her kids (Venka and Tier)... unless she ends up being Greywolf's daughter. That's what actually happened.

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: Technically the Line of Chiefs continued with Skyfire and not Two-Spear.


Technically, it split and continued with both of them. If Kahvi is Two Spear's daughter, it continued through her as well. If not- if she is Greywolf's daughter, then it didn't. That's all I was saying.

Delhya

Oct 10, 2014

Also All the go-backs are immortal from "Willowgreen's deception" as I think Icetooth put it. So like Windkin she may have been born a Wolfrider but no longer has the Wolf blood to go with it.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

I think we're talking across each other regarding the Blood of [X number] Chiefs thing. I'm referring to those who were/are actually Wolfrider chiefs.
Two-Spear was 'Blood of Three Chiefs', and in his mind the line continued with him - I'm not sure he even considered the possibility that Skyfire had taken up the chief's lock with the remainder of the tribe - at first Kahvi was supposed to be his successor but then he "killed" her and appointed that other kid (Redbark) as the next 'Blood of Chiefs'. Then whatever happened with Two-Spear's tribe happened, and Kahvi turned out to not be dead, and Icetooth/Sharf made her chief, not of Wolfriders, but of whatever name the would-be-Go-Backs went by at that time.

lunakat

Oct 10, 2014

Yes- i think you are right. We are talking about two different things. I know what happened- i was just talking about genetic relationships- not events.

WhiteMist

Oct 10, 2014

Skyfire was born of recognition, Two-Spear was not.
In a way you could say her chieftainship is more legitimate than a child sired without regocnition, which could be more seen as a 'bastard' type of thing. At least, among the Wolfriders.
Rejecting recognition, like Ember does at this point in time, seems to introduce a new way of looking at it. The 'need' for survival is getting loose now that the palace is back into full mode. So the pure instinctal way to procreate to get 'strong', legitimate children losens either.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014


WhiteMist said: Skyfire was born of recognition, Two-Spear was not.
In a way you could say her chieftainship is more legitimate than a child sired without regocnition, which could be more seen as a 'bastard' type of thing. At least, among the Wolfriders.


Or... it became like this for the Wolfriders after Two-Spear went crazy.
On one hand they had the chief who was born outside of Recognition, and went crazy.
On the other hand was the chief who was born as a result of Recognition, and who, well... didn't go crazy.
Before he went crazy the Wolfriders considered Two-Spear (or Swift-Spear) their legitimate child, because he was Prey-Pacer's chosen heir. Not because he was the oldest (at least I think he was supposed to be the oldest) but because Prey-Pacer chose him to be his successor. Both Prey-Pacer himself and Rahnee were their chief-parents' youngest children, or among the youngest.


WhiteMist

Oct 10, 2014

RedheadEmber said: Both Prey-Pacer himself and Rahnee were their chief-parents' youngest children, or among the youngest.


O, and yes, even Timmorn wasn't Timmain's first child.
And we don't know if Ember is the oldest of the twins.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Well... "Firstbloom" could never really have been a Wolfrider chief.
Maybe Suntop and Ember were born at the exact same time.

travelbug

Oct 10, 2014

If Ember and Suntop's case it's more a wolfblooded or not thing?

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Huh?

Tam

Oct 10, 2014

Ember's got the wolfblood, so she would be chief...Suntop would not.

Tanner was also born outside of Recognition, and Mantricker may have been...Goodtree had two lifemates, one Recognized, one not.

RedheadEmber

Oct 10, 2014

Where does it say that Tanner was born outside of Recognition? I just thought that Freefoot and Starflower Recognized multiple times.
Hmm... at one point did the Wolfriders become unable to have children without Recognition?

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