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Dollz, copyright, ownership, etc.


What follows here is a repost from our forum regarding a specific instance.

More debate and viewpoints and laws and rules can go in this thread later.


The "lovables" creator sells customized little dollz for "avatar community"

cash already. My advice is to simply point anyone on zantarni forums who

wishes to buy one to this URL: http://myrufflesrpgworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4548#4548

OR...write to that creating artist of the base yourself and ask permission

to sell their stuff in that forum.

Just so we are all aware, when I found that site, I did not ask permission

to use the bases to create my little Nightsea and Wavecatcher dollz. I'm

guessing none of us has been in contact with this creator.

In careful reading of that thread, I can see the creator has posted 5 rules


1. Follow Ruffles forum rules

2. No refunds. I could agree to alter something for free, as long as it's not a major change.

3. I can choose not to sell to you for whatever reason I see fit.

4. I reserve the right to change any rule at any time I wish

(won't probably happen but I'm putting it out there)

5. Do not steal in any way. It is ok to show off your bought Lovable as long as you give credit :3

Since I borrowed the base and created my own (without payment of any kind)

I likely am in violation of this person's rules even though I did "give credit" by

posting the link where I displayed the dolls I adapted on that base.

Personally, I am a bit of a bandit. I admit it. Dolling in general is automatically

a "rip off" of someone else's art. Doll communities live in a fringe world on the

net where people who put in no effort get snotty and people who create art

from scratch often do not sue for copyright. It's all a grey blur of "whos art

is it anyway" and legal issues that could make even Cutter's sharp sword go

dull as he split hairs. Which is not to say we should just ignore all the rules

all the time. But pick your battles and be honest with YOURSELF at least.

For all I know that lovables base really originates somewhere else than

where I found it online.

I have no idea what the Ruffles forum rules might be.

I know that Richard will likely land on the side of whoever he deems

created the original art if there's any appeal to this forum's admin.

I'll be happy to remove my dollz on that base if asked. I see no reason

to panic about it at present.


Again, let any debate about dollz, rules, copyright laws, internet

use, forums, art, ownership and any and all yelling and off topic

posting follow here!



If you want to see an example of a silly rule created by a pixel doll artist:

PS: History/Definition of Dollz


More of my posts on this topic from the Eflquest Dollz thread:



My "adoption policy" (basically):

I'd hope that no one steals bandwidth and that personal characters are not
adopted by folks for their own roleplaying...but...all I can do is hope since I'm
not the "net police".


More reposting about my thoughts on dolling, art, the
forum threads and my opinions.

What I will call a doll
A digital image that is not entirely your own art.
Anything you make, edit, create or alter from a
previous source image. An image generated with
your input via a dollmaker's software, 3-d generator,
or a pixel or other art assist.

NOT a doll = anything created all by you (that is original art)

Anything all created originally by someone else that you
have NO input into is not a doll either.

Dollz may get other definitions on other sites. YMMV

Your use of other art is entirely your own decision.
I make no claims on behalf of anyone who owns art
about what is "fair use", legal or proper.

What the word doll normally means
like repainted barbies or "one of a kinds" (OOK),
dolls made from clay, metal, paper or cloth, any sculpture...
let's see them so long as they are Elfquest related!
I'm sure there are other places allowing display of
images of these items, but I'll be happy to allow them
in our forum thread and this GROUP too.

Encouragement to newbies
It takes patience, software, time and a bit of artistry.
With even *some* of those you can have fun trying!
Our regular forum's first post has many links
to get you started (including software to download
for free as well as doll makers).

You can get a free account at photobucket to host your
images or a webhost of your own.
Then you can direct link to display them.

I think that gaia or tektek makers
are the easiest to use if you are totally new to dollz. But the
resulting images are rather 'cute' and not like Elfquest art.

Dollz that use a base where you draw on your own clothing
and personalized accessories take more art skill, but the
results can be amazing.

Regarding non-edited material
I like to encourage you to not only avail yourself of the art
dollmakers/etc. make available, but to put your own creative touches
in as well. I feel that until we put in our own efforts to adapt
the art, all we are doing is reposting other's work. Yes, we
made decisions on which props to use that were provided and
perhaps our combination of these elements pleases us and/or
resembles a character we have in mind. All well and good
to share the results with other dollers, of course. But more
pride can be taken in any image where our own efforts are
reflected in the actual result. It also makes me happy when
dollz have proper Elfquest ears and the right number of fingers
to belong on the World of Two Moons if they are supposed to
be elves.

My "dollz adoption policy"
As always, folks are free to take my (non personal character)
dollz for their own use, as avatars, on their websites, etc.
If I've made a personal character, that image should have
the character creator's blessing on any use.

Personal characters are non-canon, like self-elves, roleplayers,
fanfic characters or otherwise dreamed up to play in the universe
represented by the original copyright holder.

My character, "Nightsea" is a personal character. Cutter would
be a canon character.

PM or email can get you a copy of images that comes straight
from me, rather than one hosted by photobucket, where the
quality may suffer.

I would like credit for creating; simply mention my forum
name "Nightsea". No links or complicated texts or art tags

I can't defend from any potential claims from "base"
art creators, so reposting my doll work is all at your
own risk and on your own server too please.

I will also say that since my dollz are FANART
that has it's own set of copyright rules and fair use guidlines.

I am always flattered when folks ask to host my images
and I like to visit them, so letting me know is great!

These have all been MY thoughts and feelings on
things. They are by no means a complete guideline
on "how to use art on the web". Copyright laws,
personal preferences, creative ownership, rules,
netiquette, fanart and fair use terminology...sheesh,
good luck!

If you are really bothered by something you see,
ask Richard Pini for a ruling. He runs the show here.
But be sure your answer isn't already covered in an
FAQ or the copyright laws (we don't want to waste
Richard's time, right?) There are lots of places to
read the fine print on Elfquest.com like the Elfquest
: http://www.elfquest.com/Legal.html
Please also see the section called
I would like to use someone else's Elfquest fan art on my site. May I?
found if you scroll through the link below:



Interesting discussion taking place on the Masque forum @

"Wendy Pini

...I simply do not have time to keep track of all the ways in which fans are utilizing, editing, altering, spoofing, defacing, or otherwise adding their own touches to images of my work online.

Y'know, truthfully, I don't mind it when you - or anyone - plays with my artwork that's been published in book format. Lord knows I've laughed at birthday hats digitally placed on Steffan's head, too. There's just something about fans jumping on new bw sketches of mine that feels like a line's been crossed.

I know it's subjective. But all I'm really asking is let ME decide if a bw drawing should be colored and how it should be colored.

How that relates to our online dolling here in the EQ world is clear as mud.

PS: Reposted without asking Wendy's permission.

PPS: Some on related topics on the EQ Fanart Forum (run by Foxeye):

Tracing and Referencing
and you may also wish to read that
site's Briefly About Copyright section for the opinions expressed in that thread.