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Will the tribes reunite?

Blackbird

What do you think? Will Embers tribe unite again with Cutters?

Forgive, but I only read "Recognizion" brifly, so I don't remember what happend, but wouldn't they miss their family and friends and want to live with them? And the forrest where Cutters trive lives is such a nicer place :D

Angelalex242

Well, it's reasonable to assume Cutter will want to see his grandcub when the inevitable happens to Ember and Teir. After all, he'd be the first Wolf Chief in known history to live to see grandcubs.



Whether they STAY reunited is up for grabs.

Embala

Reunite? In what sense?

I'm pretty sure that the tribes will meet again, face dangers together and fight them together. And that Cutter and Leetah will see hergrandchildren from both sides - if nothing REALLY bad happens to Ember *remembers OMG!! teaser pic*

Reuniting for real as one big tribe and with Cutter as chief of all? I don't hope so. This could mean:

- Ember, the blood of eleven chiefs is killed. Then Cutter would take over pretty sure (especially when there should be no cub)

- They reunite because (almost) all elves have to leave Abode. I think Ember would give up the chiefs knot in this case and Cutter leads

But I'd prefer them staying two differrent tribes with different ways and developement. Tribes that meet, support each other and part again.

Blackbird

I meant live together as one tribe yes.
Well, I see the points, but they split in the beginning because of the Shards-war, and then because Ember wanted to hunt down the creatures Winnowill made, if I remember correct, just wondering if they will go back to "normal" again, and Ember will be just Ember again, until the time comes for her to take over when her father pass away. Not meaning/thinking that will happen in FQ.

G0lden

It would be cool if they reunited when Ember has her cub.

RedheadEmber

How about the tribes reuniting because Cutter dies and Ember has to assume chief-duties over everyone?

Trollbabe

I would like to see the tribes meet and trade members regularly, but for their numbers to increase so that they remain two tribes.

MultiMEDEA

It depends on whether the Pinis intend to stick with the timelines established in all the various comics...or just chuck them in "Final Quest". The Wild Hunt current time is about 25-30 years after the Palace reconstruction in Shards. Discovery is about 3-4 years after. Fire-Eye is about 10-12 years after, given Dodia's pregnancy and No-name's apparent age. Rogue's Curse is 400 years later. Don't even want to think about "Future Quest".

Blackbird

Chitter and Pool is drawed like (young) adults ( Pool looks older than a teenager ), and Brill is showed with a cub, so I guess there will be some years after Discovery, maybe takes up right after the last we saw of the Wild Hunt?

Blackbird

Looks like this will happen now...oh, just have to wait until #6 :)

travelbug

I think the two wolfrider tribes might stay together for a while, to sort out what's next.
But to stay as one big tribe may be difficult in the long run, as one holt and one territory may not have room and food for all of them.

Ember's tribe dont have a holt to go back to, and I dont see why they would want to stay in the Junnslands with Angrif and his army being there. It makes more sense to go somewhere new. Somewhere without humans

RedheadEmber

travelbug said: Somewhere without humans


Don't think such a place can be found.

travelbug

Red, surely there is, somewhere in the universe. The Homestar had no humans....

RedheadEmber

I was thinking on Abode...

travelbug

I guess Heartstone may be worth checking out, and Cutter's area seems safer than where Ember's tribe have been living.
But I think this is the start of leaving Abode

Dio

travelbug said: But to stay as one big tribe may be difficult in the long run, as one holt and one territory may not have room and food for all of them.

To say the truth I never understood the need for keeping the two "tribes" apart except for storytelling purposes and because it is easier to flesh out characters, if they are fewer in number. As it is each Wolfrider tribe consists of only nine to about twelve elves. And even before Madcoil killed six elves the Wolfriders numbers were very few with twenty-one individuals.
So I guess one territory should easily support twenty Wolfriders especially with the Palace next door.


travelbug

I base what I say on the conversation between Cutter, Dart and some other elves back in The Cry from Beyond, where Dart says the Jackwolfriders should return to Sorrows end because the holt cant keep all of them.

But I do think you are right, as both Wolfridertribes are small at the moment. (In earlier chiefs times numbers seem to be higher, such as 40-50 members)
If they suddenly doubled their numbers now, they would have to hunt twice as much, and possibly start to go further away to hunt enough.

Keeping the tribes apart might also have to do with not degrading Ember from chief and back to Cutter's daughter?

Dio

Didn't they complain not too long ago that they had so much food stored in wrapstuff they rarely went on long range hunts anymore?

But I agree with You - Ember's chief status would not be necessary any more, if the tribes reunited. Maybe not the worst thing after the most recent events...

travelbug

True, it could possibly be better for Ember's tribemembers to re-unite with Cutter's tribe.
I think Ember would have major issues if it happens though. (Or maybe that would happen anyway)

I didn't even remember the comment about the wrapstuffed food. I guess it is a good time for being just one big Wolfrider tribe ;)

Blackbird

I also think the two tribes have been just for the storytelling-purpose, but maybe it's time to reunite for a while. Many elves live in the palace, and I guess they grow a lot of food as well, so the food is no problem, and as travelbug said, why would they live nextdoor to Angrif :-?

Tam

Uniting would severely undermine Ember's leadership. I'm sure all the elves would survive just fine united, food isn't a problem, but Cutter split the tribe for a reason...unless they plan to stay together permanently, it would be detrimental to unite the tribes for very long. That doesn't mean Ember's tribe has to live next door to Angrif. The Palace can take them all over Abode...they could settle on the other side of the world.

The real conflict is, with how quickly humans breed and spread, how long before Ember's tribe finds themselves in the same situation and have to be spirited off to some other part of the world?

Blackbird

Didn't they split because some of them was going to take back the palace shards, and some not, and after that Embers tribe was going to hunt down Winnies creatures? And that was the reason, and now that reason is gone and they can unite for a while? Cutter still has wolfblood and Ember will get to be chief again. Has there ever been stated that this split was a permanent thing?

RedheadEmber

Only in the sense that Cutter told Ember to never undo her Chief's Lock. Which doesn't really require a split; the could be "co-chiefs".

Blackbird

My thought also! :-j

MultiFacets

Maybe Cutter could retire.

Tam

I don't think Cutter retiring or co-chiefing would work. Cutter's got far too much history as chief. They'd look to him for leadership above Ember, whether or not he gave up the lock. And I don't think he could give it up either.

I always got the impression that they split largely because the tribe was too big...the Shards war and hunting down Winnowill's creatures were convenient excuses. If it was meant to be temporary, he wouldn't have passed on the lock, and instead just appointed her as a temporary leader.

RedheadEmber

He didn't pass on the lock. At first she didn't wear it, but after figuring out how to make shelter when they needed to get away from the tuftcat (Stubtail's mother) she decided to wear it. Remember how Moonshade took issue with it? To her it was wrong that Ember wore the Chief's Lock, because Cutter was still alive (and still is). Eventually, though, Ember proved over and over again that she had indeed earned it, so that when the Shards War was over and the tribes met up Again Cutter told her never to undo her Chief's Lock.
I'd even argue that by staying behind and hunting down Winnowill's creatures she earned it even more; after all she could have simply chosen to leave Djunsland behind and go "Let Winnowill's creatures hunt down the humans for all eternity. I don't care."

Tam

Which is exactly why I don't think the tribes reuniting would work. Ember's earned her lock. Why would she give it up? Cutter told her to never undo it, as you said. Were they to reunite, I don't think they could lead together. If they had an argument, one would have to undermine the other, or damage their own leadership potential. I don't think Cutter could retire...he doesn't have it in him. And even if he did, those who followed him longer would be looking to him for guidance over Ember anyway.

RedheadEmber

Why would they have an argument? They only time that has really happened was back in HY4, when Ember was a hotheaded 16-year-old (if she was even that old, not sure) and Cutter still had hangups over all those years without his family. Now Ember is a mature chieftess in her forties, and Cutter has pretty much healed from (temporary) losing his family.

Blackbird

She don't have to give it up..just take a little break, they can live together for a while, she take care of her own, Cutter has his, and the sunfolk look to Savah :) Works out.

RedheadEmber

She certainly needs a break after what has happened.

Tam

RedheadEmber said: Why would they have an argument? They only time that has really happened was back in HY4, when Ember was a hotheaded 16-year-old (if she was even that old, not sure) and Cutter still had hangups over all those years without his family. Now Ember is a mature chieftess in her forties, and Cutter has pretty much healed from (temporary) losing his family.


Because not even the closest people agree on everything all the time? :p And now Ember's struggling with the aftermath of being captured...her motivations against Angrif and how she thinks the humans should be dealt with might be different from Cutter's.

She could probably use a break, yeah...but chiefs don't get breaks. They can defer to elders while they recover, but no chief before has had the luxury of just letting a previous chief take over for awhile. Not saying it's not understandable to be done, but I would worry that it would weaken how the others see her later on, considering stereotypical pack dynamics.

RedheadEmber

There's a difference between disagreeing and discussing a matter carefully and agreeing to the point where one feels the need to undermine another.

Eyeshigh

But, there is a luxury here! I have never heard of two Chiefs at the same time, not counting the time(s) the tribe split up in anger!!!
This was a decision to keep part of the tribe save, to be sure that after the war, wolfriders would still live on. Later Ember wanted to be sure all Winnowill's creatures were hunted down and she left with who wanted to follow her. I always thought it was never Cutters' intention to break up the tribe, but respected Embers' decision and knew she would be a good Chief.
She was just as young as Cutter when he became Chief and knew how hard it was in the beginning.
I do believe he will offer his daughters' tribe a safe haven for now and see what will happen, but he also knows : "Once a Chief, always a Chief!"

Tam

RedheadEmber said: There's a difference between disagreeing and discussing a matter carefully and agreeing to the point where one feels the need to undermine another.


I agree with that. But even with careful discussion, someone has to concede their point. Some might see this as a sign of being a good leader, admitting when one is wrong...but others might see it as a sign of weakness. I'm not saying Cutter and Ember would be at each other's throats all the time...just that there's the possibility of conflict, between them, and between the ones they lead, not knowing who they should side with.



Eyeshigh said: But, there is a luxury here! I have never heard of two Chiefs at the same time, not counting the time(s) the tribe split up in anger!!!


She has that luxury indeed! I'm just saying, it might not be a great thing. Ember might not have that luxury in the future; she should be relying on her elders to pick up the slack, not the father who's shadow she's just escaping. Or maybe she doesn't even want a break. I wouldn't be surprised if Cutter offers her tribe safe haven temporarily; he certainly should. They don't have a holt now. But what next? There should be a plan for what happens after that. Do they unite permanently? Do they split off again to fight Angrif? Do they find Ember's tribe another home?

Embala

What we know from the last issue Angrif plans to wipe the "demons" from Abode ... and he'll probably start with the Wavedancers. For me it looks like there's hardly another chance than fighting him ... for the Wavedancers as well as for the Wolfriders.

I don't see that they will play several rounds of hide and seek ... before they decide to leave Abode.

travelbug

I hope the tribes join together for a while. I think it could be good for them all to spend some time together :) maybe some new relationships will come along :)
I think the elves will need a few terrifying experiences an maybe some deaths before they take the plunge to leave Abode.

I think its anyones guess when Angrif will come for the wavedancers. It could be soon like weeks, or a few years.
We can assume that it takes Angrif some time to build an entire fleet of army ships. A ship isn't built in a day. Angrif will probably be whipping slaves to work fast though.
So if he decides to go for the wavedancers with a big fleet, it can be a while (maybe a couple of years?)
However, he could also send ships he already have for the wavedancers. Its not stated that he has any at this point (as far as I can remember) but he is a warlord and rich and powerful, he may have one or two already.

RedheadEmber

Embala said: What we know from the last issue Angrif plans to wipe the "demons" from Abode ... and he'll probably start with the Wavedancers. For me it looks like there's hardly another chance than fighting hoim ... for the Wavedancers as well as for the Wolfriders.


Going by the blurb (or whatever the word is) for issue 6:

Warlord Angrif Djun prepares a massive assault upon all elves, forcing Chief Cutter and his Daughter Ember to wrestle with a dire choice.


Dunno why, but your post made me think of that bit. And judging by the cover of issue 6 Ember won't be able to lead for some time.

travelbug

I agree, Red.
Ember looks like she's in a bad state. Maybe post-traumatic reactions of some sort? Elves get that too, right?

MultiFacets

I'd say Dodia's breakdown would be very good evidence pointing toward that, so why not, travelbug?

RedheadEmber

I thought Dodia's breakdown was at least in part due to the whole touching minds with a crazy person thing.

wingthing

Forced impregnation by a crazy person. Seriously, Dodia's storyline was like a pro-choice nightmare.

RichardPini

travelbug said: Ember looks like she's in a bad state. Maybe post-traumatic reactions of some sort? Elves get that too, right?


You have no idea...

travelbug

Elfpop, you're making me worried!

Blackbird

Whaaat?? Don't scare me Richard!!!

RedheadEmber

Now why would he suddenly stop doing that?

travelbug

Maybe Ember's expression (looking like Bearclaw) when seeing the human kids is a hint then?

RedheadEmber

Right... this is sorta spoilery, so... Proceed past Petalwing at your own risk!

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So far it seems like the tribes won't reunite as such, they'll just mix up their members a little bit.

travelbug

I think Yun going to the Father Tree holt was a surprize, but it's about time she gets to spend some more time with Skywise.
I like how it turned out Cutter has got his original tribe (only missing Woodlock and Rainsong) back at the original holt, and Ember leading the younger elves :)
Freetouch with Sust, Pool and Mender in the same tribe should make some sparks fly.

lunakat

travelbug said: I think Yun going to the Father Tree holt was a surprize, but it's about time she gets to spend some more time with Skywise.

I like how you combo the word surprise and prize. It is a bit of a gift for Skywise to get to spend time with his grown daughter.

travelbug said: I like how it turned out Cutter has got his original tribe (only missing Woodlock and Rainsong) back at the original holt,

Don't forget Dewshine and Scouter!

travelbug said: Freetouch with Sust, Pool and Mender in the same tribe should make some sparks fly.

I got the impression that she was a little bit eager for that!

travelbug

Typos will show up now and then, as I'm to lazy to get the dictionary out to check words 8->

I did forget about Dewshine and Scouter 8->

lunakat

travelbug said: Typos will show up now and then, as I'm to lazy to get the dictionary out to check words


Oh my! Sorry! I thought you did it deliberately! It seemed like you were making a clever point about this being a gift to Skywise, or one of life's little prizes, as well as a surprise. There I go again- overanalyzing.

RedheadEmber

One thing I've noticed is that :-* , !Scouter and !Dewshine are the only three who've always been member's of :-j 's tribe.

First it was :-j herself (obviously), ;;) , :> , :x , Nightfall, :-* , !Dewshine , !Scouter , :D and !Moonshade .
Then ;;) , :> , :x , Nightfall and !Moonshade left, while Mender, Yun and >:D joined the tribe.
Now >:D have died, :D and Yun have switched to :) 's tribe, while Dart, Freetouch and Windkin have switched to :-j 's tribe.

And yes; I just used icons everytime I was writing the name of an elf who had an icon!

Embala

And Pool and Sust! They joined Ember's tribe too ... ^^

RedheadEmber

Well, they got born into it. But yeah.

lunakat

I think, being born into it, they would be more inclined to think of themselves as "Ember's tribe" than the elves who spent several thousand years with Cutter and simply joined with Ember (initially) because Cutter told them to. They've never known anything else!

lunakat

As a side note, I guess Yun wasn't all that attached to Mender after all.

WhiteMist

lunakat said: As a side note, I guess Yun wasn't all that attached to Mender after all.


Guess not, they liked eath other for the time around, after Teir got into the picture.