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FQ Issue 4 **SPOILERS**

Heather

On a plane, getting ready to take off. How appropriate as issue 4 does just that. Takes off!
I want to write more but we will be taxing soon! Start talking y'all!

Saint_Parallelogram

The last page-oh so beautiful!!!!

Saint_Parallelogram

Who are the other un named ones in the final panel, unknown children of Kahvi or her most dedicated followers?

Raenafel

Vaya, Yif?

Saint_Parallelogram

I recognized Vaya, Yif, Tyldak, Krim and Skot, but the others escape me.

travelbug

Isnt it Mardu at the top left side?

It seems like Teir is child of Kahvi and Tyldak then? Who else could share blood with both Kahvi and Windkin?

Raenafel

what was that about sharing blood?
Windkin asked something, but I didn't get it (had to read on the go, returning from lunch to office)

Tavie

Random thoughts: LOVE how Windkin is drawn and colored. I know this has been mentioned before, but Windkin's current "look" - especially his wild hair - is some of my favorite character design in a long time.

Very happy, too, to see Pool's reckless-youth behavior in leaping out to attack the Djunsmen. Bye-bye, Rat-hole!

Djarum's ravings remind me that I never did finish the Wavedancers storyline. I've been trying, lately, and I guess I should go back and refresh (does it matter? will it have any bearing other than to give a little context to the ravings of the now-departed creep? I vaguely remember him punching his wife and her collapsing, dying... is that right?) Anyway, the shock and gore in that scene was very well done, the look on Ember's face on the lowermost righthand panel in that page is absolutely stunning. I couldn't stop staring at it. Wendy's a master of portraying emotion, and she somehow managed to get terror, guilt and revulsion mixed all together in Ember's expression. The skill is extraordinary. I know it's been said a million times before, but dammit, I'm saying it again - no one puts across emotion like Wendy. No one.

And what is it, then, that she does? Severs the contact with Teir - "cuts him off" so that he can't access her emotions anymore? That's how I read it but it's a little hard to parse. Whatever it is she did, it knocked him off a cliff - literal cliffhanger, nice. (And, GRR!)
:O)

The best was saved for last - that panel, oh glory, the beloved dead - our Krim and Skot reunited, dear Vaya next to her mother - and yes, yes, now I finally believe that Kahvi's gone. I KINDA believed before, but there she is with the ghosties. There she is with her beautiful bird. I couldn't help but think of Ryan Browne (does he have a forum name for me to tag?) of the Elfquest Show podcast, here - he was right, the ghost Tyldak is the "original recipe" Tyldak. No wings, and I love that he's wearing an old-school glider outfit, tight-fitting with intricate scrollwork patterning. But I thought, "Poor Ryan, who so loves Tyldak's birdman form, it really is gone forever."

A howl for birdman Tyldak. Awoooooooooooooo!

And now, having gulped that all in one sitting at two in the morning last night, another two months of agony...

travelbug

I think Ember must have put up some defense walls in her mind to shut the connection of.
similar to what Strongbow did when Timmain got to close, when they first came to the palace.

I love the last panel as well :)
Tyldak looks great as the glider he once was, and I was really happy to se Krim, Skot, Vaya, (and the other three, whom I asume is) Mardu, Yif and Kiv.
For some reason I thought it would be only Kahvi and Tyldak, so I think its great that it actually is a group of the go-backs we first got to know :D

travelbug

Raenafel, when Windkin sends to Kahvi in the palace, he asks: ..do you still walk the world in your own skin? Do the one with our shared blood walk with you?..

ChristinaRaibert

Tavie said: Djarum's ravings remind me that I never did finish the Wavedancers storyline. I've been trying, lately, and I guess I should go back and refresh (does it matter? will it have any bearing other than to give a little context to the ravings of the now-departed creep? I vaguely remember him punching his wife and her collapsing, dying... is that right?)


You might give my beloved WD a try while waiting for the next issue ;)

As for Ardan Djarum's wife, yep, you most definitely remember right. Ellia was said to be a weaver's daughter, for whom Ardan Djarum fell pretty bad, regardless of her not so stellar lineage. He was annoyed by her inclination to believe that there could be "good" spirits, and when she slighted the name of his so-called "ancestor", he lost it and struck her hard enough to break her neck (that or she hit her head falling backward on the cobbled street - it's not very clear).

Afterwards, he married a second time (to a "loveless wife") with whom he had a son, Kahram (who was later killed by Surge, and was presumably the captain of the whalers in "Turning Tide"). So when he set out to wipe the WaveDancers from the sea it was both to avenge his "lost love", Ellia, and his (only?) son. Yet I find it significant that after years of torture and insanity he only talks of Ellia, but does not mention Rakham - it draws a parallel with Angrif who was perfectly willing to sacrifice his sons in the name of his "demon hunt". Ardan Djarum might have inherited the typical Djun 's mentality that offsprings are only useful so long as they serve their purpose, but he seemed to genuinely care for Ellia if her memory haunted him for so long.

On this matter...

Way to go, Wendy and Richard. First you made me reconsider my initial hatred of Skimback by making him an altogether likeable character in "Discovery". Now you even managed to make me pity Ardan Djarum, who was single handedly the last character I ever thought I could feel bad for. Yeah, he's had his coming for what he did to Darshek and the WaveDancers, and yes there's some karma at work there, but it was still pitiful that he should finish his life like that. I cringed at the gunshot... the terrified look in his eyes. I don't think he even realized that death would put an end to his suffering, so much was he used to receive only pain from his half-brother.

Oh, and Angrif, dear? Don't grow any half-baked ideas to follow Ardan's example and go after the WaveDancers. Not that I think you would last a minute (Sunstream alone could set a bellyripper on the run... and frankly in a meeting with a bellyripper I'd not bet on you, with or without gun), also you'd have to deal with two entire Wolfriders tribe first (and if your sire was any example... the stakes are all against you) - but that's besides the point. Because you see, Sunstream & Brill 'shippers are real. As I am. Keep the lesson of Sushi Surge vibrantly clear in mind before doing, uhm, pretty much anything that has to do with *my* precioussss water dwellers. 'Kay? >:) Fine, glad we cleared that up.

As for other, non-WaveDancers related things; I liked seeing Tyldak's restored form! There's definitely much of him in Windkin, you can tell from a mile away that they're father and son. Kahvi looks just as determined and eager for a fight as she was in life (oh, Angrif? The chances of your getting anywhere near the WaveDancers keep thinning out) and woot for Vaya getting the spotlight! :D (Now I wonder what are the chances that we might see some WaveDancers from the spirit plane... Coral? Skimback and Sandsparkle's baby? Haze and Farbright? *waves my bring deceased WaveDancers into this flag* Hey, a girl can dream!)

Rathol's death... he was quite literally asking for it, and in the end, he got it. From that one panel in #2 where he gives a doubtful look at his sire I had hoped he might eventually turn into a new Gifa, but years of brainwashing and a deeply rooted fear of what expected him back home didn't leave this one much alternative. 'Grats, Angrif - unless you sired some "illegitimate offspring" yourself, you might have just ended your line for good. (Because we know what are the chances that Mender actually gives in and restores him, even if Angrif is too dumb to realize that Ember wasn't kidding when she warned him against taking that route...)

Speaking of Ember, I love how she's holding up to Angrif. Sure, she's terrified of the destruction he could wreak and of his utter disregard toward anyone's life that isn't his own, but like hell she's going to bend before *he* loses it! I truly feel like the confrontation between them is one of wits... and with Angrif's violent temperament he might be going to snap soonish (remember the next cover with beaten-up Ember?), thus drawing the Palace (and its inhabitants) to the rescue.

Looking forward to see where this will go...

Mkal

So, could it be that Teir is the son of Windkin and Kahvi?

"Does the one of our shared blood..."

Hmmmmm

Tavie

Mkal said: So, could it be that Teir is the son of Windkin and Kahvi?

"Does the one of our shared blood..."


INTERESTING. That would give the conversation between Dewshine and Teir in the preview special a new angle (grandmother unknowingly bonding with grandson)

Mkal

Tavie said: That would give the conversation between Dewshine and Teir in the preview special a new angle (grandmother unknowingly bonding with grandson)


Yes it would....

travelbug

I wrote this in Teir's character tread a couple of weeks back. If it turns out to be true, I will be happy.
I'm usually not very observant for clues 8->


travelbug
July 7 Flag
I was reading the very long "Final Quest Predictions" tread and someone wrote about a couple of coments on Wendy's facebookpage. I gave up finding it again for copying, but it was somebody writing to Wendy and saying more or less this: Teir looks great in the new drawings. He looks so much like his parents.
Doesn't that sound like Teir's father is somebody whom is already introduced ?

I keep thinking Teir's eyebrows, eyes and hair look a lot like Vaya and Kavhi, and his nose, cheekbones and jawline resemble Tyldak's.
However, if that's the case, it doesn't make much sense for them leave him on the plains.

Greyfox

"Does one with our shared blood walk with you?" I thought that meant is Tyldak there with you.. But then again, Tyldak and Kahvi don't share blood, as I recall :-S

Tavie

Greyfox said: "Does one with our shared blood walk with you?" I thought that meant is Tyldak there with you.. But then again, Tyldak and Kahvi don't share blood, as I recall


I actually thought he meant Tyldak first, although I also didn't get the "shared blood" thing - because I figured it would be natural for Windkin to be asking about his father/pal that he hung out with for howevermany thousands of years.

But he knows Tyldak is dead, so why would he question whether his spirit walks with Kahvi in the Palace?

I guess it's ambiguous, it could mean, "Is Tyldak there and are your spirits hanging out together, or is he off doing his own thing elsewhere in the giant sphere of Palace magic?"

But that seems a bit of a stretch. It makes more sense to me, now that @Mkal and @travelbug suggest it, that he would be asking about someone else, to see whether or not they're alive.

Greyfox

I guess you're right. I reread it and it makes sense that it's someone else than Tyldak. Actually, it does look an awful lot like Windkin standing behind Kahvi in Teirs flashback...

ChristinaRaibert

You know, it's an interesting theory; we know that Teir inherited his animal bonding powers from his sire. Windkin, thus far, hasn't showed any such magic - but the Gliders certainly did "bond" with their birds (albeit not in the way Wolfriders do), and Tyldak was able to persuade the free hatchlings of one of the Eight's hawks to carry Kahvi, Yun and Chot in the siege to Sorrow's End. There might be indeed more to Windkin than meets the eye...

EDIT: Failing that, he could mean "one with *my* and *my father's* blood", aka a child of Kahvi and Tyldak. The fact that he says "one" and not "the one" makes me wonder if she wasn't pregnant when they parted ways?

Tam

Well also, Teir's father didn't necessarily need to have that animal communication magic. It does seem to be teachable, like when he attempted to teach Ember. He could just have a strong inclination for picking up animal communication as a skill. If he was raised by an animal communicator and taught from a young age how to do that, I could easily see Kahvi pawning him off on some plains tribe guy to raise...and I think Tyldak would have agreed to that. I'm not sure if Windkin would have.

travelbug

Windkin says to Kavhi: Does the one with our shared blood walk with you?

That suggests there is somebody related to both Windkin and Kavhi's out there.
I think Wendy and Richard changed Teir's old back story from hidden years to fit Kahvi and Tyldak's story in a different way, just like they have done with Ardan Djarum

Tavie

@travelbug

That suggests there is somebody related to both Windkin and Kavhi's out there.
I think Wendy and Richard changed Teir's old back story from hidden years to fit Kahvi and Tyldak's story in a different way, just like they have done with Ardan Djarum


I think you may be right, and if so, I'm fine with it! The story needs to be told their way and if minor things like this get tweaked to fit, I say good!

JRoseberry

I always thought it looked like Windkins shadow in the memory panel, and I took what he said to mean someone who shared Windkin's and Kahvi's blood. That tale will be interesting to see played out.
Love that Tyldak is in his true elf form, he looks so regal, and Scot!! I never wanted to hug a character as much as I wanted to hug him, heck all of them...LOL

travelbug

Tavie, I like the theory, but we probably have to wait for months to get the answer ;)

I like Windkin more and more, I'm happy he's in the spotlight for a bit :)
He's growing into one of my favourites

sulken

It's a bit too much of a change (don't jump the shark), IMHO. In HY, we see a woman, who vaguely resembles Kahvi and later wanders off with his siblings. Apparently she was more of a stepmother. His father (stepfather?), from whom he inherits his animal-manipulating abilities, starves to death for him... This man obviously can't be Winkin. So, if the new theory was true, Kahvi and Windkin recognised* (Tyldak still alive, because the two parted after his death), for some reason she didn't really care for the child and left (presumably with Windkin and Tyldak, who never gets a mention). Teir was then raised by step-partents (only to be lafter left from his new mother, again), in a tribe, where at least some people have the same (up to HY unheared) magic ability, even though they do not share a bloodline.

Oh, and when Windkin retells of his time with Kahvi and Tyldak, he forgets to mention, that he had a/some kids with Kahvi. Or that they ran into some new tribes.

*Though, didn't Teir somehwere say his parents haven't recognise?

Llannen

Somehow I feel like Venka is tied up in Teir's background story....but that doesn't fit the "shared" blood comment. I have nothing to base the Venka part on except that Kahvi left Teir from the insinuations of the flashback....and while Kahvi isn't the "mothering" type, I wonder if there would be something that would cause her to look so resentfully as she did in that flashback. I also wondered if the shared blood comment referred to a Wolfrider (assuming Kahvi has the wolf blood), so again I thought of Venka. I may be totally reaching with this thought process.

The lines of beauty in this....while Wendy's art is beautiful, the energy and life in these drawings just flow. I feel like she had such great joy especially in drawing Ember.

Raenafel

Maybe I'm stupid, but I still don't get the idea behind Ember staying, and literally handing herself over to humans instead of fleeing together with the rest of Wolfriders.
Has she learned something so important from Djun? Hardly.

She stayed there alone, willingly, refused recognition, then severed her bond with Teir... and all that for what?!

Tavie

Raenafel said: Maybe I'm stupid, but I still don't get the idea behind Ember staying, and literally handing herself over to humans instead of fleeing together with the rest of Wolfriders.
Has she learned something so important from Djun? Hardly.

She stayed there alone, willingly, refused recognition, then severed her bond with Teir... and all that for what?!


She stayed behind so the others would have a chance to escape - especially Teir. She gave herself to the humans so the others could flee. She's not there to learn anything about the Djun, she just didn't want them to get caught up in a battle that would cost her tribe's lives.

lunakat

I think Tavie is right about Ember's decision. It was about giving Mender a chance to carry Tier away. Otherwise, the two of them would have had to fight off a whole bunch of men- because Tier was dazed and couldn't run. She was acting as a decoy.

As far as Windkin's comment is concerned- I also think that it probably means Tier is his son... if just because the next panel cuts immediately to Tier climbing the cliff. That's pretty straight forward. I actually like this idea of Windkin and Kahvi hooking up. It feels natural. He would have been the closest she could have gotten to having a cub with Tyldak. And it would have been a reason for him to leave her- if he felt awkward about it. Since he couldn't have taken Tyldak's place in her heart. And that would also explain why he is so interested in them now. Maybe he simply gave her a child and took off.

lunakat

You know... that would make several of Windkin's comments fairly poignant. The whole bit about "If Kahvi ever had a love of her life, it was Tyldak..." and Dewshine's comment that Tier reminded her of Windkin in the eyes.

Diana

I really don't get the "What are you waiting for?" at the end. Who is Kahvi sending to?

Overall, meh. Still reading as a longtime fan and will continue to do so. But meh.

Yngvar

I understand Ember's reasons for giving herself up. However, she is now way too loose with her tongue. She's dealing with an utter sociopath, and as such, he knows how to figure out people's weaknesses and turning them against them. In the last issue, he already learned something about her pains from denied Recognition. Now he's learned about the Wavedancers. And when he gets word that his son is indeed dead, he will have learned about the elves' telepathic abilities. Was giving up *that* secret worth watching his little temper tantrum?

Tavie

Diana said: I really don't get the "What are you waiting for?" at the end. Who is Kahvi sending to?


All of them - the Palace-Masters, I guess - Skywise, Suntop... saying "Let's fly this Palace outta here already!"

Tam

It is a kind of...disjointed question. Windkin searches for Kahvi's spirit, and then she seemingly replies to the fact that Ember's sent for the Palace to aid Teir and co. I'm...pretty confident that's what it is, but it could have been a little clearer.

Also, is this where the graphic novel would end, or is that Issue 5? I know that a graphic novel isn't guaranteed, but if that page was the end of a graphic novel, it would be fitting. "What are you waiting for?" The adventure begins!

jorenm93

Okay, I understand that Ember calls for Sunstream's aid to help Teir and the tribe, but at this point it just feels more logical the she calls Sunstream etc. to help HER... What's her plan? Just sit there, waiting to be killed?

Tam

What would the Palace do, though? It can't fit in the building Ember's in, presumably. They could send a pod, but there's still the matter of actually getting to Ember. I'm sure that she and the Djun are heavily guarded, and it would put a lot of elves at risk, which is exactly what Ember is trying to avoid.

Maybe once they've rescued Teir and the rest, they can start thinking about a rescue plan for Ember. Seems more logical to me, in a cold, hard numbers sort of way. Saving a tribe versus saving a single elf, even a chieftess. She got captured to save them, and even though the Djun's last kid is dead, I would imagine that once the troops recover from that shock, they'll still pursue. Best to get them out while they can.

ChristinaRaibert

Yngvar said: In the last issue, he already learned something about her pains from denied Recognition. Now he's learned about the Wavedancers. And when he gets word that his son is indeed dead, he will have learned about the elves' telepathic abilities. Was giving up *that* secret worth watching his little temper tantrum?


I could be wrong here, but I think she means it the other way around. Angrif doesn't seem to realize that by letting her so much "in" his plans, he's also going to expose his plans, his weapons and even the sick way his mind works to the elves at large - through her connection with Teir, Sunstream and the Palace. Sure, he seems confident that the elves will know just how to replicate his gun - but the elves, unlike him, know where Two-Edge dwells (with Venka and the Go-Backs) and if anyone could get him to work on counter attack measures, it's probably Venka herself. All Ember needs is a trifle contact with her brother to tell the other tribes just what kind of ammunition he owns, and what his most likely targets will be (Ember's Wolfriders and the WaveDancers).

lunakat

Tam said: It is a kind of...disjointed question. Windkin searches for Kahvi's spirit, and then she seemingly replies to the fact that Ember's sent for the Palace to aid Teir and co. I'm...pretty confident that's what it is, but it could have been a little clearer.


I think it was fairly clear.

Stefan

Fun little detail...i love the canvas structure on the Venovel painting..

Tam

lunakat said: I think it was fairly clear.


Like I said, it was clear enough for me to understand, but it could have been clearer. I mean, there was no indication that Cutter, Skywise, and Leetah were near the Scroll Room when Kahvi appeared. Windkin went to talk to her about something, and she responded to something completely different. And first, Sunstream was in the Scroll Room when Windkin was reaching out for Kahvi, then he's leading the others inside...I assume he received the call for help during that, and left to relay the message...did Kahvi get it too, through the spirit network or something, and that's why she's responding?

lunakat

It seemed to me that they ran into the scroll room because Ember sent to Suntop. Suntop had gone to fetch them, and brought them into the scroll room, just as Windkin was summoning Kahvi with the scroll. Yes, I guess Kahvi would have picked up on the send, since she's in the spirit realm- and spirits just seem to know these things (ex- Crescent).

Raenafel

My guess is that "the one with our shared blood" might also mean the child of Kahvi and Tyldak. In that case, probably "our" would mean "us gliders".
Windkin calls Kahvi fellow traveler, friend... he doesn't call her lovemate, though he probably would if he had reasons to.

He might be worrying about her child that she conceived during her travels.

This child btw could well be Teir. -_-

Yngvar

I'm writing on a tablet, and I can't seem to get quotes to work here. Anyway, ChristinaRaibert, I don't think it matters what Ember means. If Angrif hasn't realized before, he certainly will now. He's an evil bastard, but he's not stupid. And I don't think he expects the *elves* to replicate his gun. He's got men to do that. The only elf he wants alive is Mender, to restore his broken manhood.

Mkal

lunakat said: Maybe he simply gave her a child and took off.


Which would explain the look of disgust on Kahvi's face from "Recognition"

Mkal

We also need to remember that Windkin's heart was/is with Ahdri. He may have surrendered to the shared longing that Kahvi had for Tyldak that he had for Ahdri...

lunakat

It's possible that the reason Kahvi abandoned Tier (if she did) was that she was about to commit suicide at the hands of Lerin... whateverhisnameis... the old human dude.

Tam

Mkal said: We also need to remember that Windkin's heart was/is with Ahdri. He may have surrendered to the shared longing that Kahvi had for Tyldak that he had for Ahdri...


The only way I really see that happening is if it was after Tyldak's death (or if Kahvi and Windkin Recognized). If they stayed together to try to comfort each other, one thing led to another, and then baby. But I don't think Windkin would have knowingly abandoned a cub, especially after growing up not knowing his own biological father...so maybe it just got weird between them and he left to try to find Ahdri and Kahvi went to go find herself a suitable killer or something. And weird not necessarily because of sex, because elves clearly don't have the same hang ups about sex that we do...but because it was still too soon, after Tyldak's death? Anyway. That's the only way I can think of, off the top of my head, that would make sense to me.

lunakat

Or maybe Kahvi wanted a baby that was a little bit of Tyldak- and Windkin obliged. But maybe hanging around after doing that got awkward. Maybe Kahvi wasn't interested in co-parenting. And maybe... sometime later, she realized that a baby didn't fill the gap or that she wasn't going to be the best mom and left him with a substitute family.

ChristinaRaibert

Yngvar said: And I don't think he expects the *elves* to replicate his gun. He's got men to do that.


Gah, I went back to re-read my post and couldn't believe I hadn't noticed the typo x_x I meant that he counts on his tinkerers to replicate the gun, not the elves (that's what happens when you post in a rush 'cause you're about to leave, lol); but the elves could obtain equally destructive weapons from Two-Edge to counter the Djun and his soldiers. Which won't necessarily be a good thing... I'm thinking about Treestump's dream here, specifically. And Redlance's - with the use of advanced technology eradicating the Father Tree. *shudders*

Regarding Windkin and Teir... when one thinks about it, in the "WaveDancers" segments with Windkin and Wavelet, he's often uneasy when it comes to telling her the truth about her parents deaths. Wavecatcher even gets annoyed when Windkin *can't* bring himself to breach the subject (while Wavelet assumes he's just shy of joining with her). We all thought his empathy to her could originate from how he was raised by Scouter who wasn't his blood sire and when he did meet Tyldak (HY) it wasn't in friendly circumstances... but to the light of FQ, we know that Tyldak and Windkin met again and had time to reconcile and get to know each other. So it couldn't be possible that Wavelet reminds him of the child he sired with Kahvi and left for her to raise? (Which needn't have been done willingly from his part, though - maybe she just pushed him off? Remember, Kahvi wanted to pull such a stunt on Rayek too, and Windkin though not half near so "controlling" was possibly too moody. Either that or like someone pointed out, she wanted her child to be raised by Tyldak and no one else.)

Although I don't think the double meaning choice of words, "one with our blood" is a coincidence. Hey - we know Teir has a brother who left with his mother, righty? In HY we see a flashback with several elves leaving and there's a kid who turns to look at him, so we went ahead to assume that was his brother, but if the brother really was Windkin who had taken up in the air (and planned to part ways from Kahvi afterwards, as hinted in the Prologue? The fact that he didn't yet mention their joining other tribes might have been concealed for later usage... even his meeting with Wavecatcher and Wavelet is only barely hinted at. Didn't Wendy say something on the lines of "all you see isn't everything there is"? Maybe the "father" who died of heartache had fallen for Kahvi but realized she'd never care for him the way she cared for Tyldak (that or, like @lunakat said, she already knew that she was going to get herself killed and flatly told him so. "Watch after my son after I'll be gone", and we know she's not one to change her mind easily, so Teir's step-dad could only watch with a heavy heart as the woman he loved embarked in a suicidal mission of her own free will, regardless of his feelings... or little Teir's own.)

Woolbender

Gah! I never knew how spoiled I was. I read all of the main story from the Original Quest on in graphic novel form, and now this 20 pages at at time is torture! I was very caught up in the story on the first read yesterday, but when I realized I only had a couple of pages left, anguish is probably too strong a word, but I can't think of a better one.
I thought I had read everything online, but apparently, I need to do a heap of re-reading because while I'm following the main plot just fine, all this back story y'all are discussing, I just don't remember. That and I abandoned New Blood before or during the Forevergreen storyline completely after the self-mutilating, elf-worshiping (was that Door?) humans showed up. It just got too weird and now I can't even find the New Blood issues that I did have, so I'll have to read that online as well.
Back to the story, when Ember thought, "mother...what you once did, I too must do..." I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what she meant. What did Leetah do that Ember wants to repeat in this situation?? Then to find out she means denying Recognition and Teir with his abandonment issues already?? Eek! And now I have to wait 2 months to find out what happened? *weeps with despair*
That final page is so beautiful! I can't really add more to what has already been said about it. It's just gorgeous!

jorenm93

MAYBE Windkin has a child with Venka :D! Than Kahvi has a Go-Back ànd a Wolfrider-chief as grandchild, she always wanted that :)

lunakat

Even if Kahvi just had a kid with Tyldak- Windkin and the kid would still "share blood." It might not be Windkin's child.

jorenm93 said: MAYBE Windkin has a child with Venka :D! Than Kahvi has a Go-Back ànd a Wolfrider-chief as grandchild, she always wanted that


That's a neat thought! It would be rather tragic if Venka had travelled all those years looking for Kahvi, but never found her. (And then she was dead!) I like the idea of them all meeting up at some point.

Woolbender said: Then to find out she means denying Recognition and Teir with his abandonment issues already??


Yeah- I was pretty sure from the start that she was going to deny recognition. The whole talk about Ember not wanting kids vs Tier craving them sort of set that up. BTW, speaking of Tier... abandonment issues really seem to be a big thing with elves. Skywise and Tier both remember their moms- despite being infants. And they both went a little bit crazy when triggered. Skywise held a grudge against Cutter (for freaking ever!) until he literally just threw himself off a cliff over that mid-battle "abandonment." Now Tier is losing his marbles after sniffing Kahvi's braid and having Ember, quite understandably, pull back. I guess parent-child bonding is incredibly important to an elf psyche.

MultiFacets

It's incredibly important with too many living things to keep count of.

Dreamcat

I´m so happy Windkin finally got some proper clothes (now we only need some for Moonshade too before she catches a cold). His handsomeness fully blinds my eyes. *-*
Can´t wait for him and Mender meet again! (Yeah, I know how Dart came to his 'preferences' watching these two growing up in the hood, so please excuse the following brain-fart. ;) )

Mender: *looks Windkin up and down* Dude, what happened? Where has my bikini-bitch gone?
Windkin: *wipes his hair back* I got some class, blondie.
Dart: *sees both of them together after so long* *0* *dies*

RedheadEmber

Wow. Wow! Just wow!

That was... amazing (and evil that we have to wait another two months).
Have to admit I giggled a little when Pool offed Rathol, here we were some who were thinking that maybe Rathol would jump sides, or something.

As for Ember denying Recognition, I'm not sure it's from a I don't want children mindset, as from a I don't really have the opportunity to answer the call of Recognition now.

Teir's parents: Could he possibly be the son of Kahvi and Tyldak? As in; could Kahvi have been pregnant when Tyldak died?
Maybe she didn't know at first, parted ways with Windkin, and when it became obvious she fell in with "Teir's people" (they might even have at least vaguely recognised her as their legendary chief), she developed some sort of 'bond' with Teir's "father" - she might even have threed with him and Teir's "mother" (as in the one we saw in they HY flashback) - eventually, when Teir was born, she realised that she couldn't stay; leaving him to be raised by their pair he eventually came to think of as his "parents". This could also mean that Kahvi didn't leave Teir because she did not want him, but because she knew he'd be better off where he was.

The people in the final panel: I recognise Kahvi, Skot, Krim, and Vaya. I assume the Go-Back behind the Glider is Yif, and the Sunfolk behind Vaya could be Shushen (or Lutei, though he doesn't quite look like Lutei from the Special). Who's the Glider? Pre-change Tyldak? And who's the last Go-Back?

Stefan

Well, he did jump sides...sort of.

Dreamcat

I´m pretty sure the Glider is Tyldak. The change only affected his body after all, and when he recognised Dewshine, he appeared to her this way too.
I think the Sunfolk could also be Dodia.

RedheadEmber

Stefan said: Well, he did jump sides...sort of.


It was a rather impressive jump...

Elwing

I finally got it, and I'm despairing a bit. I thought I was a pretty big fan, but now I feel like I need to have read absolutely everything to make proper sense of it. To be honest I never really bothered with some of the spin-offs, in particular anything to do with the Wavedancers! Oh, and Kahvi's solo series... And what was that thing that Ardan Djarum was in? I'm a failed fan! >:>

Also, that huge Venovel portrait. That is a pretty ungainly thing for an advancing army to carry around, and then immediately put on the wall of a "hastily appointed room" in a conquered city. Angrif Djun must have some serious evil step-mom issues...

And who made the upwards pointing arrow? Could it be Ekuar? O:-)

RedheadEmber

Ardan Djarum was in the Wavedancers story.



Elwing said: And who made the upwards pointing arrow? Could it be Ekuar?


Could be. There are things pointing both towards it and against it.

ChristinaRaibert

Regarding the other spirits with Kahvi in the last page... couldn't the female with the headband on the far left actually be Urda, Kahvi's former second in command?

RedheadEmber

I just thought it looked like a guy...

Elwing

It does not really look like her...She had a rather specific hard face.

lunakat

Kahvi and Rayek... bitterest divorce of all time.

JRoseberry

I was wondering about the arrow myself, was it made by a rock shaper or carved out by hand. If it is rock shaped then I hope it's someone they might know. Of course I always liked the idea of more unknown tribes on the world of Two Moons.

Thornbrake

It looks carved to me, versus shaped.

lunakat

The obvious implication is that the arrow was made by whatever people have to society in the mountains... the one the children and Korbasi told the elves to go find. They probably made the arrow mark to show the way for anyone looking. It probably means they are close.

Raenafel

Well.. I'm sad to see the oldest wolfrider finally dead :( *sniff*

RichardPini

RedheadEmber said: Ardan Djarum was in the Wavedancers story.


Or the other way around... 8-X

Llannen

RedheadEmber said: Teir's parents: Could he possibly be the son of Kahvi and Tyldak? As in; could Kahvi have been pregnant when Tyldak died?


I really like RedheadEmber's Tyldak and Kahvi line of thought....so much could've happened in the 10,000 year slumber. I am enjoying reading this thread for being a newbie to the forum, but the one thought that keeps coming up is that Elfmom and Elfpop are particularly good at yanking the rug out from under us. :>

Mkal

RedheadEmber said: Could be. There are things pointing both towards it and against it.


I think it is a symbol for a clear place for the palace to touch down safely.

Nightsea

Am I the only one who thought the Glider spirit in the end panel with Kahvi was
Aurek/Egg? If it was Tyldak, where are his bushy eyebrows? Even in his spirit/recognized form with Dewshine he sorta had that going on, didn't he?
Plus his chin doesn't seem pointy enough. I gotta look again.

This forum has so much discussion that it does keep the brain moving even after the too brief format of these comics flies by. I am also a spoiled fan from the Donning/Starblaze book days and just need more of a chunk at a time to put it together I guess. But new and frequent makes up for that I think. Maybe.

I like to watch TV shows in chunks on DVD too...so...*shrug*

As for "shared blood" with Windkin...hmm...so many possible options.
Does being in the same tribe (Glider) count? Did Tyldak have more offspring?
Are Teir and Windkin siblings? Did Windkin himself sire? Just have to wait. Ugh.

The mark on the rocks...Two-Edge is an obvious thought, as is our differently-abled bald rock shaper, but then it could be hiding Trolls
or even just humans. More waiting. More ugh.

Teir in the water...he falls off a cliff. *cue the drama music and fade to
black* GAAAAAH!

I'm kinda of the mind that Two-Edge being the cause of all human tech
on this world is slightly annoying also. Yeah, he's a mechanical mad genius,
but why does he give all his toys to Momma's pets? Doesn't he even like
Trolls at all anymore? He's got the hots for Venka, how come she's not
flying around the planet in a bi-plane by now? Torture on someone like
Two-Edge, who learned cruelty and was mentally broken as a kid... really...
are we gonna buy that?

And Trolls degenerating so much...is that universal now? I wonder what's
gonna happen with all the planetary imports if the palace packs up and
flies off? On another odd wavelength...(but FutureQuest says NO)...why
would Elves et al leave Abode to the humans if they could simply use the
giant energy ball of the Palace to relocate them instead? I know they
aren't the types for genocide...but new habitat for humanity on a global scale
could be such a cool option.

Savah says humans and elves ride different parts of the same wheel. The
crunch has always come when hi-tech meets low on Earth in reality. History
and wars and evolution all show that the strong go on while the others not-so-much. I wonder how Elves are going to reconcile the disparities
when it isn't all tech but soul power and the wisdom beyond death?

As for being immortal or not...isn't that the very crux of the real difference
between humans and elves in the first place? Moonshade's dilema is quite
the hot button topic as conflicts get worse. Her soulmate's stubborn embracing
of the Way is going to really put it to the test.

I think it is Cutter and Skywise who have always embodied this rift in the
past. (And maybe that was biographical in bits I dunno.) The stay together
or not theme...how can two separate yet connected deeply beings each want
opposite goals and fully support one another as they "share the same wine from
different cups"? Being alive, desiring connection, yet also having other passions...
ah that's a riddle to solve.

I'm the kind of fan who just soaks it all in and hopes it will continue
to give me that same double-plus-good vibe. I'm a bit worried
after Elfmom's sojurn to the darker side in Masque and all the focus
on torture and death of late...but I am still seeing lights like stars here.

Issue 5 is when already?
*sigh*
--Nightsea

PS: Oh and Sonny's coloring...bREE dEE Deeet Deeee! as the Preserver-speak
version of "squee" goes.

Also...kudos to Elfmom on all the detail in the throne, the dress of the
human with the bowl, that bird on the helm/crown and all the other myriad ways that I see she is still an uber artist! There's none of that feeling of
replicated image tubes in the art here, so even if you're using it you are
doing it so well it doesn't seem prepackaged. I liked Masque, don't
get me wrong, but I adore Elfquest and love to see your mastery applied
here with grace.

RedheadEmber

Nightsea said: Am I the only one who thought the Glider spirit in the end panel with Kahvi was
Aurek/Egg?


Unless the events of the 'FutureQuest' stories are considered completely uncanon, then Aurek/Egg is still alive.
I think my initial thought was (m) Door. Would prove that Dodia did indeed kill him, and that the whole elf spirits tend to mellow out quite a bit when becoming part of the Palace thing implied with Kureel is still in work.

Nightsea said: He's got the hots for Venka, how come she's not
flying around the planet in a bi-plane by now?


How do you know she isn't? 8-X

jorenm93

Nightsea said: I'm kinda of the mind that Two-Edge being the cause of all human tech
on this world is slightly annoying also. Yeah, he's a mechanical mad genius,
but why does he give all his toys to Momma's pets?

If you mean the gun: he gave that to the humans years ago, when living in the citadel.

Thornbrake

Nightsea said: And Trolls degenerating so much...is that universal now?


That was just one small group of trolls that settled under the Holt in Greymung's old kingdom, only to be "devolved" into misfits by the dark pool of magic that lingered in the very ground there. That magic was created originally by High Ones and was later corrupted by Bearclaw and Spirit Man's hatred, and, fueled by lightening, created Madcoil. After the monster's death the magic remained, only to eventually be absorbed/exploded by Suntop millennia later when the Wolfrider's returned.

Tavie

Thornbrake said: That was just one small group of trolls that settled under the Holt in Greymung's old kingdom, only to be "devolved" into misfits by the dark pool of magic that lingered in the very ground there. That magic was created originally by High Ones and was later corrupted by Bearclaw and Spirit Man's hatred, and, fueled by lightening, created Madcoil. After the monster's death the magic remained, only to eventually be absorbed/exploded by Suntop millennia later when the Wolfrider's returned.


I imagined you saying this with your hands behind your back and your toes pointed out, all in one long breath like the MicroMachines guy.

DanWillig

JRoseberry said:
  • I was wondering about the arrow myself, was it made by a rock shaper or carved out by hand. If it is rock shaped then I hope it's someone they might know. Of course I always liked the idea of more unknown tribes on the world of Two Moons.






  • I'm with you. Remember when Yun first met Khorbassi and found a sculpture of a winged elf (EQ v.2-33)? My guess is she–elf or preserver, alone or in a tribe–lives at the top of that mountain.

    lunakat

    Do you guys really think that human beings on the WoTM can't figure out how to carve stuff? I don't know. I mean, maybe. It's possible there's an elf there- but it's also possible these people just use basic tools.

    Dreamcat

    My first idea was that the arrow marks an entrance to troll tunnels (cuz I remembered a story with trolls in that area), but then I wondered why trolls should actually leave marks on the surface. The only reason that came to me was that maybe they can´t find their bearings so well outside when they´re used to tunnels, but then again why should they leave them at all...?

    Tam

    Well, Khorbasi says he's heard stories about an old mountain retreat, so my guess is some old human camp that's been abandoned. His life has already been extended...it could be old enough that the Djunsmen haven't heard of it.

    RedheadEmber

    He was supposed to have been found by Yun during the 'Mender's Tale' storyline, which took place approximately 12 years after 'Shards'. (+/- a few years, not sure how long after 'Wild Hunt' 'Mender's Tale' was supposed to take place.) And adopted by hair shortly afterwhile - after initially being "sent off" with some of the Longriders, if my memory is correct.
    This is actually one of the reasons his presence in the pre-birth scene back in the Special still bothers me; he didn't serve any purpose in that scene, and if he hadn't been included then - as far as I'm concerned - there'd be no "timeline issues"; everything that happened in 'Wild Hunt' and 'Mender's Tale' (including Yun's adoption of Khorbasi) would simply have happened in that twenty odd turns of the seasons timegap. Though of course that still doesn't cover for the about 30 year timegap that was supposed to be between 'Mender's tale' and 'Recogniton'. I'll just stop timeline ranting. :bz

    I think the simpler explanation to why Khorbasi (and the children) have heard about the 'Mountain Retreat', and the Djensmen haven't, is that they're Longriders and the Djunsmen obviously aren't.

    I defintely don't think it was Ekuar who made those marks though; remember that the only period of time that he's been "unaccounted for" since his introduction is from the moment he left with Rayek after the end of 'Shards', which I think is less than 50 years ago. Not exactly very old. O:-)

    Tam

    Haha. That works too. :)

    Definitely agreed about Ekuar...he doesn't have to have shaped every abnormal rock feature. ;) I'm going with human-made with basic tools and an old mountain retreat made by humans. If humans can have swords, they got tools.

    RedheadEmber

    Tam said: Definitely agreed about Ekuar...he doesn't have to have shaped every abnormal rock feature.


    Of course not. Plenty of other rockshapers.

    Trof

    Long time EQ reader and occasional lurker here...these new issues are so incredible that I had to finally chime in. :)

    Enjoyed reading everyone's comments on FQ# 4...but I have a strange theory that I wanted to share. I guess it is more of wishful thinking as I'm 99.99% sure that my theory is false, but that isn't a good enough reason not to be just a little hopeful!

    What if...Khavi is actually still living? She does look pretty spirit-like in that last panel...but something about Windkin's sending asking if she was still living got me wondering...was he just not informed of Lehrighen's confirmation of his role in her death...or something else entirely? Part of this hair-brained idea of mine is the way in which Khavi is portrayed in that panel...she is noticeably more bright and detailed than the other spirits...which to be fair would be expected based on her personality in life. But maybe...just maybe...she is somehow projecting her spirit or communicating on a deeper level with her deceased tribe and just helping to rally them to help Ember and Tier?

    Again this is just a wild and silly wishful theory...based on what we've heard...Lehrighen most likely ended her life...and I do recall Wendy mentioning that Khavi had "made peace with her passing physically" in a post several years ago (perhaps a Wendy's Words...I can't quite recall where I read this article/quote now) and it also doesn't seem that someone who scoffed at magic/sending as Khavi did would be sending her spirit out Savah style.

    A more honest explanation would be that she is still very much a chief in death and there to rally the deceased elves...but that begs another question if so...where the heck is Venka and what is her role to be in all of this? If Khavi is truly deceased then she would have to know about it I'm thinking?

    Again, please take this wacky idea with a grain of salt...but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the matter. :)

    Tam

    My thoughts are that she's dead and y'all just gotta accept it. >:>

    She is unequivocally a spirit. Done. Zero question in my mind. If she at all showed a proclivity or ability to astral project, I could have gotten on board with this idea, but she never has, so I think it's about as probable as me winning the lottery.

    Look at it another way. Yeah, it sucks for all of us that Kahvi is dead. She was a bad ass warrior queen and we wanna see her kick butt for ever. But the love of her life died. She spent an insane amount of time wandering after she and Windkin parted ways...long enough for Windkin to forget the sound of other elves. She trained her own killer. She was MISERABLE.

    Now, she's a spirit. She's in the Palace, able to explore worlds we can't imagine (as long as they're in the Palace's aura). She's surrounded by her tribe, her children, and her mate. She's stoked to be a spirit! Let her be a spirit and be happy for her, cuz she finally is. >:>

    RedheadEmber

    Trof said: but that begs another question if so...where the heck is Venka and what is her role to be in all of this? If Khavi is truly deceased then she would have to know about it I'm thinking?


    Isn't that what her quest is all about; find out what happened to Kahvi.

    Tam said: long enough for Windkin to forget the sound of other elves. She trained her own killer. She was MISERABLE.


    Wait. What? Where did it say that Windkin forgot the sound of other elves? And even if he did, wouldn't he remember it again once he returned to Sorrow's End?

    Tam

    Heh, sorry. Wasn't an exact quote, just trying to get the sense of the length of time out there. But looking at the part where Leetah and Skywise find him in the decimated Sun Village, he says, "I guess...that's what it was," when Leetah calls him by name, and says he's been trying to forget everything but Ahdri's spirit and has contemplated suicide to join her. That seems like a REALLY long time, to get to that point.

    Dreamcat

    But FQ doesn´t take place so long after Shards... at least not for elfin standards. It´s only one human generation. ö_ö

    RedheadEmber

    Exactly. And the events which lead to Windkin thinking Ahdri had died happened pretty much parallel with Shards.
    Guess he was just that depressed.

    Tavie

    Tam said: Look at it another way. Yeah, it sucks for all of us that Kahvi is dead.


    I love how this is phrased - it makes me feel like she's a real person and we're members of her "tribe" dealing with her death!
    >:> :-\" >:D

    Nightsea

    Nightsea said: Am I the only one who thought the Glider spirit in the end panel with Kahvi was Aurek/Egg? If it was Tyldak, where are his bushy eyebrows? Even in his spirit/recognized form with Dewshine he sorta had that going on, didn't he?Plus his chin doesn't seem pointy enough. I gotta look again.
    Yeah, ok, I looked again. It's Tyldak. I'm glad everyone's spirits are together in the Palace and yet ready for adventure. So good to see Vaya too. I liked her.

    Now just have to keep waiting for more. Oh, and can't wait to see the helicopter
    Two-Edge makes for Venka eventually. LOL, RedheadEmber!
    --NS


    lunakat

    Nightsea said: I think it is Cutter and Skywise who have always embodied this rift in the past. (And maybe that was biographical in bits I dunno.) The stay together or not theme...how can two separate yet connected deeply beings each want opposite goals and fully support one another as they "share the same wine from different cups"? Being alive, desiring connection, yet also having other passions... ah that's a riddle to solve.


    I love this! Great insight there.

    BTW- No, that can't be Aurek- unless the Jink stories are invalid. It's Tyldak.

    RedheadEmber

    Tavie said: I love how this is phrased - it makes me feel like she's a real person and we're members of her "tribe" dealing with her death!


    You're saying Kahvi isn't real??? :-O =((

    Dreamcat

    To me, she´s as real as any celebrity I´ve admired, and her death came as hard to me as some actor or musician´s I´ve adored. :((
    I will always remember how great she kicked butt...

    Thornbrake

    Tam said: Heh, sorry. Wasn't an exact quote, just trying to get the sense of the length of time out there. But looking at the part where Leetah and Skywise find him in the decimated Sun Village, he says, "I guess...that's what it was," when Leetah calls him by name, and says he's been trying to forget everything but Ahdri's spirit and has contemplated suicide to join her. That seems like a REALLY long time, to get to that point.


    At that point in the story, Windkin had been in the Sun Village for a decade or so. He went there after the events of the Forevergreen storyline.

    Tam

    Thanks. I had to look up the timeline...seemed like a lot longer. But maybe he was just also jaded and bummed out by events happening with Kahvi and Tyldak.

    Thornbrake

    Tam said: Thanks. I had to look up the timeline...seemed like a lot longer. But maybe he was just also jaded and bummed out by events happening with Kahvi and Tyldak.


    I think it was more a melancholy that set in after the Forevergreen (and let's face it, we were all morose about that one!) when he got back to find Sorrow's End destroyed and traces of Ahdri's spirit in the rock and assumed she was dead.

    His adventures with Kahvi and Tyldak happened during the long sleep, before the events of Forevergreen, which could have been decades or centuries before the Wolfriders awoke.

    Tam

    But elves can hold a grudge and be emotionally effected by something for a long time. See: Winnowill, Joyleaf, Cutter...

    Trof

    Tam said: Now, she's a spirit. She's in the Palace, able to explore worlds we can't imagine (as long as they're in the Palace's aura). She's surrounded by her tribe, her children, and her mate. She's stoked to be a spirit! Let her be a spirit and be happy for her, cuz she finally is


    Point taken Tam! Hmm...I don't think my post was along the lines of "OMG she's dead..noooooooo!"...honestly Khavi is not even one of my favorite characters. I'm just a long time EQ fan of many turns who has read nearly every EQ story out there and trying to just think a little bit outside the box. Plus knowing how fiendishly Elfmom and Elfpop like to torture us with red herrings...you never know just what's coming next. ;)

    P.S. Welcome to the forum...oh wait...sorry...not my line (lol)! ^_^

    Tam

    *laughs* You're not the first person to bemoan Kahvi's death...just the latest. ;) This is also not my first time here...been a member for years. :p

    Thornbrake

    Tam said: But elves can hold a grudge and be emotionally effected by something for a long time. See: Winnowill, Joyleaf, Cutter...


    Very true.

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