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FQ Issue #5 ***SPOILERS***

Tam

Since I requested the thread, I'll start. ;) I know it's not OFFICIALLY out yet, but I got a copy today due to a mix up with the app...a glitch, someone uploaded it early, I dunno. >.>

This issue answered a LOT of questions...which is really fantastic, for once. *laughs*

-Windkin and Teir: so Windkin is Teir's dad. It kind of...grew on me. Especially when I read his recounting of it. Kahvi wanted one more kid, it would make sense that she wanted one with Tyldak's blood, and...I mean, she could get anything she wanted. Who could say no to Kahvi? I'm stoked it wasn't Recognition. Windkin got the job done and was outta there...I get the impression that Kahvi treated him more like a sperm donor than anything, so with his need to find out what happened to Ahdri, I could see a potential cub leaving his mind. And the reason for Teir's abandonment is just perfectly Kahvi...he was a boy. It wasn't malicious, he just wasn't what she wanted...and the way she tells him that she's essentially stalked him with her spirit for so long has me guessing that she died shortly after she left him. I am still interested about his adoptive parents...they seem to be Go-Backs, but maybe they became more nomadic later on? It doesn't seem to quite match what we've been told about Teir in Wild Hunt, but obviously, with Go-Backs breeding like mad, they couldn't all stay near where the Palace was originally. The revelation for Teir that Windkin is his sire (and Dewshine his grandmother) was really touching.

-Angrif's gun: it amuses me that they were able to deflect the last shot. SUCK IT, ANGRIF. But now the rest of the elves will know about the horror Ember experienced. Definitely more than a tiny, whizzing rock.

-Ember and Teir: I am glad to see them reunited. It was great, at the beginning, to see Kahvi essentially taunt Teir into swimming to the surface. And by the end of the issue, he seems to accept that Ember isn't ready for Recognition. I am, however...I'm not quite sure how to explain it. Baffled, I guess? Baffled, that she was not only able to delay Recognition, but turn it completely off and deny it altogether. I feel like it really weakens Recognition's position as a biological imperative. If she could just decline, what kept Dewshine from doing the same when she Recognized Tyldak? Or Dodia, when she Recognized Door? What's so special about Ember that she can say "no" to Recognition? Cutter seems to think this is a new change brought by the Palace...which would be...interesting. Hmm. At least Teir seems to accept this decision she's made and is no longer BUT I WANNA HAVE A BABY!!!! about it. The commentary also calls them "lovemates" when before, Ember called him "lifemate," which I also find interesting.

-Ember and the humans: I don't blame Ember for her attitude towards humans...I think that the wake-up call was necessary. But I hope that she doesn't blame the Longrider children for it...they're just as much victims of Angrif as she is, and I think that more humans raised among elves can only be a good thing. As long as they understand that not all humans can be redeemed.

And of course, after answering all our questions, they leave us with a cliffhanger about the sanctuary at the top of the mountain that the rock arrows led them to. But they can't answer everything all at once. *laughs* It was nice to see Krim, Skot, Pike, and Sust reunited again, if only briefly.

lunakat

The explanation that Ember's ability to deny recognition is a result of the Palace's influence doesn't make a lot of sense. Ember hasn't spent time in the Palace- not really. She was in it as a kid when they discovered it- but that was very brief. She was in it again when Rayek stole it- again, very brief. She took a trip with it, as a teenager, to Sorrow's End and back- again, brief. And then, she didn't spend any time with it until it was recovered after the Shards war. She basically walked in, said hi to her dad- and walked back out. She hasn't been living near it like the Holt elves.

At best, it seems that maybe being Leetah's daughter had something to do with it. As you pointed out- maybe she inherited some latent self-healing ability that allowed her to turn off recognition, but not restart it. Leetah did pretty well in book one while refusing Cutter for many days. I always figured it had to do with her being a healer. But maybe she was able to deactivate recognition somehow?

Re: Angrif. Why are Abode humans so much more retarded than Earth humans? My best friend figured out how to make a gun out of bamboo when we were twelve. We got the basic ingredients, made some gun powder- and he figured out the mechanism by looking at how other guns were put tog. Angrif has had this thing how long? And they can't figure out how to mimic it? Lame. On earth- this is an entirely human invention. No master-smith half-trolls.

I actually like this explanation for Tier's parentage. It makes sense- and it also makes the fact that he found Ember much less random. Maybe Kahvi guided him to her?

Tam

lunakat said: The explanation that Ember's ability to deny recognition is a result of the Palace's influence doesn't make a lot of sense. Ember hasn't spent time in the Palace- not really. She was in it as a kid when they discovered it- but that was very brief. She was in it again when Rayek stole it- again, very brief. She took a trip with it, as a teenager, to Sorrow's End and back- again, brief. And then, she didn't spend any time with it until it was recovered after the Shards war. She basically walked in, said hi to her dad- and walked back out. She hasn't been living near it like the Holt elves.


I fully agree.

lunakat said: Why are Abode humans so much more retarded than Earth humans? My best friend figured out how to make a gun out of bamboo when we were twelve. We got the basic ingredients, made some gun powder- and he figured out the mechanism by looking at how other guns were put tog.


Well, gunpowder was originally made as to treat skin infections...they didn't realize it had qualities for weaponization until later. It's easier to make a gun when you know how...not as easy if you're not used to smithing small mechanisms, or have no idea what's in gunpowder. Gunpowder was 9th/10th c. CE, but the firing mechanism which led to reliable handguns wasn't invented until 15th c. CE. So Abode-humans are a little behind on gunpowder, but a little ahead on handguns, if we're looking at Abodean humans being around 14th c. CE.

lunakat said: I actually like this explanation for Tier's parentage. It makes sense- and it also makes the fact that he found Ember much less random. Maybe Kahvi guided him to her?


Perhaps. I wonder how she would have. Part of what makes him angry with her is that she never spoke to him, even though she was watching.

Thornbrake

Tam said: Windkin and Teir: so Windkin is Teir's dad. It kind of...grew on me.... Windkin got the job done and was outta there...I get the impression that Kahvi treated him more like a sperm donor than anything, so with his need to find out what happened to Ahdri, I could see a potential cub leaving his mind. And the reason for Teir's abandonment is just perfectly Kahvi...he was a boy. It wasn't malicious, he just wasn't what she wanted...and the way she tells him that she's essentially stalked him with her spirit for so long has me guessing that she died shortly after she left him. I.... The revelation for Teir that Windkin is his sire (and Dewshine his grandmother) was really touching.


Yeah, this was like, WHOAH at first but then as it settled in, I'm kind of liking it. I've always thought Windkin and Teir resembled each other anyway. Both have high cheekbones, square jawlines, and upturned noises, as well as brown hair.

I think you've nailed it about Kahvi's reason for leaving Teir. It's not that she is anti-male (which I'm sure some people are going to interpret it as), it's just that she wanted a girl. Simple as that. And given that she had some trusted tribesfolk who she could entrust the kid to, she was off on her next adventure. It always struck me that Go-Back kids were probably raised collectively anyway.

But remember, Windkin adventured with Kahvi and Tyldak during the long sleep. It was on one of his many journeys and adventures away from the Sun Village. So it happened probably at least hundreds of years before Forevergreen and Ahdri's wounding.


Tam said: she was not only able to delay Recognition, but turn it completely off and deny it altogether. I feel like it really weakens Recognition's position as a biological imperative. If she could just decline, what kept Dewshine from doing the same when she Recognized Tyldak?


I had to re-read this a few times, but I don't think Ember turned it off completely. She called the inner strength that is in her, and her mother before her, to block the physical and emotional impact of Recognition, but it took the magic of Leetah and Mender combined (powered by the Palace) to actually break the biological imperative. Without that, I think Ember, like Leetah, would have eventually had to give in to the call of Recognition.

The thing that really stood out to me here was how Ember and Teir are elves that have deliberately chosen not to have children. That's a first (which they even say in the story) and I think it's kind of a nice nod to the real world, where not everyone--particularly not every woman--feels the need to have kids. Also, Wendy and Richard have stated that they very deliberately chose not to have kids, so I think we're seeing another example of the story being autobiographical for them.

lunakat

Ember just invented birth control and family planning.

lunakat

Thornbrake said: Also, Wendy and Richard have stated that they very deliberately chose not to have kids, so I think we're seeing another example of the story being autobiographical for them.


That's interesting and sweet.

Tam

Thornbrake said: I had to re-read this a few times, but I don't think Ember turned it off completely. She called the inner strength that is in her, and her mother before her, to block the physical and emotional impact of Recognition, but it took the magic of Leetah and Mender combined (powered by the Palace) to actually break the biological imperative. Without that, I think Ember, like Leetah, would have eventually had to give in to the call of Recognition.


I re-read it a couple times too, and I see what you mean. If that's what's going on in the silhouette, if that's Mender and Leetah "freeing" them from the urge of Recognition...I can get behind that.

I am totally behind the ability of people to choose whether or not to have children, just to be clear. :) There's definitely none coming from me. It just irked me that what was seen before as a steadfast rule was blatantly broken. But it appears I was wrong about that, so everything's coolio in my book now.

Thornbrake said: But remember, Windkin adventured with Kahvi and Tyldak during the long sleep. It was on one of his many journeys and adventures away from the Sun Village. So it happened probably at least hundreds of years before Forevergreen and Ahdri's wounding.


Maybe. Maybe it happened just before Forevergreen. Who knows. ;) I just pointed it out as a possible reason why Windkin may not have had a potential cub on his mind.

Heather

I am loving it! To me this has been the best issue since the FQ started.

I wont' repeat everything that has been said, because I am on the same page pretty much as y'all.

The fact that Teir is Windkin's son does work for me. I like it, and Kahvi's actions work for me as well. And watching her spur Teir by taunting him made me smile to no end.

Serious bit, Ember and Teir being able to postpone Recognition, I am happy. First off we see that not only were they not sure if it was going to work, but if it could be rekindled. This is something new for the elves and as Cutter even said "More change?" But what I really liked about it, is the actual important human issue it reflects. As a woman who has chosen to postpone having children (if I ever have them), I have received a lot of criticism from my own culture. I've been told I'm "selfish" or that I will never really know what it means to be a woman if I don't have children. I know many other women in my shoes have been treated the same way. ElfQuest is a 'self quest' for many of us, and having a female character in the story being able to say "I don't want to be a mom. At least not yet." is empowering.

Fun bits, something for me that I really loved is the background moment between Skywise and Yun. His putting his arm around his daughter and saying 'I just felt like it.' Hopefully we get to see a growth between these two. He didn't get to be a father to her, and it means something to him. That moment left me with an awesome warm fuzzy.

And a howl for Krim! Finally! So beautiful. I had tears in my eyes. It was perfect. Seeing Skot and Krim embrace Pike and Sust was another highlight for me. Closure for them (and us) was needed and we got it!



Stefan

I haven't read the issue yet..But i am looking forward to it even more after reading this thread..

One thing about the Ember/Palace bit... Isn't she wearing a piece of it?

Heather

Stefan said: One thing about the Ember/Palace bit... Isn't she wearing a piece of it?


She is. And that is a very fair point. While obviously the elves living closest to the Palace are being influenced more than those that aren't, I think all the other elves are still feeling it's influence. We already know it's "ball" is much bigger than the World of Two Moons. Not to mention, wearing some of it with them must mean something more than just decoration.

Stefan

Those four/five last pages were amazing! I just loved the reunion bit between father, son, grandmama and cousins. And Skywise giving his daughter a hug. Those pages were spot on the feelers..

Also, 'By the halls of Blue Mountain..' I wonder who said that. And is it a hint to what they're seeing at the top.. Aurek/Egg?, Aroree?

Thornbrake

Tam said: I re-read it a couple times too, and I see what you mean. If that's what's going on in the silhouette, if that's Mender and Leetah "freeing" them from the urge of Recognition...I can get behind that.


Yeah, and it's pretty obvious that Teir is still feeling the full effect and drive of Recognition even though Ember was able to put it on hold. The caption following Mender and Leetah discussing whether they two of them together could "do what's wanted" reads, "As the lovemates are freed of the ancient reproductive urge.... Once the magic takes hold, only then do all howl for a dear friend lost in battle." So it's definitely not a case of an individual elf just deciding to ignore Recognition.

Here's a question: Are Ember and Teir lovemates or lifemates? In issue #4, Ember calls Teir her lifemate:

Ember Forgive Me

But now they are being referred to as lovemates in issue #5. I'm confused. Elves can be lifemates without having to be have a consummted Recognition, so why the switch?

Something similar happened with Scouter and Dewshine in Hidden Years. They were lifemates, then lovemates, then lifemates with Tyleet. Odd.

Heather

I have gotten confused about this as well @Thornbrake

lunakat

You can probably be a lovemate to your lifemate- but not always a lifemate to your lovemate.

lunakat

Okay- after having read it thoroughly, I fully buy that Ember was able to shut down her reaction to recognition (like her mom did)- and do think it's clear that Mender and Leetah were required to free them from the full grip of it.

I'm also with Heather in that I like that Ember found a way to exercise her power of choice.

I also like the implication that Skywise has developed some sort of relationship with his daughter. There was some good lead up to that in the prequel (in his discussion with Sunstream)- and then, after, we saw him visiting Ember's tribe multiple times in a pod. It just makes sense. And yes, it was sweet for him to put his arm around her- plus, it had to happen story-wise. It would have been kind of awkward for him to be on this adventure and just not interacting with her.

As far as what they see is concerned- it has to be noticeable enough (big enough) be seen over the trees. Some kind of structure?

Tavie

feltlikeit

:bz :bz :bz

This makes me happy here, Chieftess.

Tavie

ALSO: Wendy scolded me recently on a FB thread for speculating about THIS VERY THING. Wendy, you TEASE!

ourcousin
=P~

lunakat

Tavie said: This makes me happy here, Chieftess.


Lol!

Elfquest- the father's day issue.

Tavie

lunakat said: Lol!

Elfquest- the father's day issue.


Sounds like Skywise's idea of Father's Day. A half-hug after centuries of fatherhood sounds about right for him. ;)

lunakat

Tavie said: Sounds like Skywise's idea of Father's Day. A half-hug after centuries of fatherhood sounds about right for him.


Or centuries of non-fatherhood! Until they created the pod, he would have had little to no interaction with Yun.

Tier on the other hand...

Say, do we have any inkling where Aurek might be at this point?

Tavie said: ALSO: Wendy scolded me recently on a FB thread for speculating about THIS VERY THING. Wendy, you TEASE!

Snark

Tavie

Tam said: Windkin and Teir: so Windkin is Teir's dad. It kind of...grew on me. Especially when I read his recounting of it. Kahvi wanted one more kid, it would make sense that she wanted one with Tyldak's blood, and...I mean, she could get anything she wanted. Who could say no to Kahvi?


I was really intrigued to see the reasoning behind Kahvi's abandonment of Teir was due to his gender. (MISANDRY!!!!! =)) =)) ) Honestly, it was quite consistent with what we've seen of Go-Back culture; females tend to be the leaders. Females are strong, desirable offspring. I'm not saying that's right (by human standards or otherwise) but it's just interesting to see the "usual" turned on its head that way. I also like her term of endearment for Teir, "duckling" - fits, him eternally trying to toddle after her, at least metaphorically, like a baby duckling. Are there ducks in the frozen mountains? And what was with the hint about his "unusually gifted" Go-Back father - was that a nod to past acknowledgments of Teir's origin story and inheriting the "gift" of animal-bonding from his sire?

Heather

Tavie said: females tend to be the leaders. Females are strong, desirable offspring.

It also fits with Kahvi's train of thought as well, keeping the Go-Back numbers up. You need more females for that than males. So to Kahvi, females are better for the tribe, more females, more fawns. It's obviously not the way other elves think, but Kahvi isn't like other elves.

travelbug

Love all the spoilers :D and pictures :D

I'm a bit disappointed about the postponing of recognition and cub (we all love the new cubs, dont we?)
Zarhan Fastfire managed to delay his recognition to Cheseri for ten years, so I guess Ember and Teir's cub may come along later?

I think it is a very clever way of adressing the issues in our world over the expectations about having children. It is after all the norm to get married and have a family.
It can be hard both deciding to not have children (for whatever reason, it is a very personal choice) or for some reason not being able to have any (which would be a difficult experience for those who would love to have kids)
Wendy and Richard must have met some of those expectations on their way as well, as they dont have children.

Tavie

I feel like this "Hey we're Recognized!" "OK, now we're not anymore" thing sort of fits the "red herring" category. Who was it that was asking recently how many actual red herrings Wendy's thrown at us? I think this one may just count as a real one. This and "Rayek's dead, there's his finger bone.... PSYCH" are the only real ones, right?

lunakat

Tavie said: I feel like this "Hey we're Recognized!" "OK, now we're not anymore" thing sort of fits the "red herring" category. Who was it that was asking recently how many actual red herrings Wendy's thrown at us? I think this one may just count as a real one. This and "Rayek's dead, there's his finger bone.... PSYCH" are the only real ones, right?


I agree. I think with all the talk of it, though- there must be more coming up. I'm sure something about future quest and JInk will turn out to be a red herring.

travelbug said: Zarhan Fastfire managed to delay his recognition to Cheseri for ten years, so I guess


So this is not entirely unprecedented.

travelbug said: I think it is a very clever way of adressing the issues in our world over the expectations about having children. It is after all the norm to get married and have a family.
It can be hard both deciding to not have children (for whatever reason, it is a very personal choice) or for some reason not being able to have any (which would be a difficult experience for those who would love to have kids)

Absolutely!

travelbug said: Wendy and Richard must have met some of those expectations on their way as well, as they dont have children.

I always had the impression (based on what they've said about it) that they chose between children and their work. But I could easily be wrong- not actually knowing them personally and all.

Heather said: It also fits with Kahvi's train of thought as well, keeping the Go-Back numbers up. You need more females for that than males. So to Kahvi, females are better for the tribe, more females, more fawns. It's obviously not the way other elves think, but Kahvi isn't like other elves.

Let's just face it. Kahvi is sexist. Here's flat proof. She clearly would have been one heck of a mother. And there was no impressing her. Look at Vaya. Vaya literally had to commit battle suicide to win her mother's respect. And she did it. That's all we really need to know to understand that dynamic.

Tavie said: Are there ducks in the frozen mountains?

She's done a lot of traveling since the frozen mountains.

I just wanted to conclude my comments with how impressive I find Angrif Djun's chest hair. Everyone go back to that page and look at it. Just look. There is so much of it. I can only imagine what the rest of him looks like.

Tavie

Something I'm not super clear on: how much time has AngrifIhadanyballs had to mess with Ember, at this point? I'm just wondering what's passed since Ember cutting off Teir while tied to the chair, and Ember dangling over a crowd and being pelted with gunk.

She's obviously been thoroughly tortured, psychologically. The gun, the threats, the dangling chains, the pelting in front of a crowd. I just (am relieved to) notice that she appears to have gotten off fairly "lightly" in terms of physical torture.

Psychological torture will surely make you hate you some humans, though.

Heather

Tavie said: Are there ducks in the frozen mountains?


Don't forget, she lived a long time at Thorny Mountain Holt with the Wolfriders and then traveled a lot after that. She saw a lot of wildlife

Tavie

Heather said: Don't forget, she lived a long time at Thorny Mountain Holt with the Wolfriders and then traveled a lot after that. She saw a lot of wildlife


I did forget that.

(All this talk about ducks makes me want to eat some duck.)

(That's not innuendo, I just love duckmeat.)

Obsidian6244

I hate to say it. Especially since its some peoples' favorite issue of the FQ so far but... I didn't like this one. :/ I kept thinking I missed a page because I felt like some panels were missing. It went really fast and felt kind of choppy compared to the Original Quest and KOTBW and what not. I don't enjoy the idea of wink in being Teir's father. Nor a couple other little picky things. Kahvi's return seemed a little.... under-done? Idk . I love Elfquest to death. But this isn't my favorite issue. Every other FQ comic I've reread at least ten times already. This one I think I'm good.
And as always, its Wendy's and Richard's story. They tell how they want and I love and respect that. Kudos to them and everyone who loves where this is going. I'll just be sitting over here hoping It takes a different turn eventually.

Heather

Tavie said:
(All this talk about ducks makes me want to eat some duck.)

(That's not innuendo, I just love duckmeat.)



You-Quack-Me-Up-the-worst-spot-on-fanpop-12242670-567-355[1]

Tavie

.
[request that you let us replace images in a post after they've been uploaded - I blanked out this post and redid it with a cropped version of the image as the original was clunkily large]

Tavie

lunakat said: I just wanted to conclude my comments with how impressive I find Angrif Djun's chest hair. Everyone go back to that page and look at it. Just look. There is so much of it. I can only imagine what the rest of him looks like.


You're so right. There's practically enough chest hair to make a whole new wolf. Just slap on some nose and eyes and kind of shove the top around to make ears:chestwolf

Tam

*gigglesnort*

janus_majere

Obsidian6244 said: Kahvi's return seemed a little.... under-done?


I don't know about her return being underdone, for it sort of spanned between most of the comics. Between Lehrigen's proof of killing her (which was more questionable for the longest time), all the way to the speculation of where she was... the undercurrent of her has been around for awhile. I was glad to finally get some definitive proof that she was in spirit form from the last issue, and a bit of her devil-may-care ways in this issue.

Now, I DID have issue with how she was drawn on that two page spread. I don't know what it is, but she kinda doesn't *look* like herself, and she looks cross-eyed to me. It's the weirdest thing. I don't know if it's the "light" in her eyes that's throwing me off, or one eye looks rounder than the other... but it made me cover the lower part of her face (nose to chin) and higher part (eyes to forehead) separately to see just what was bothering me.

I honestly feel bad for feeling this way. lol

Thornbrake

Tavie said: Are there ducks in the frozen mountains?


Here are Earth there are definitely ducks that live in Arctic regions, so I'd imagine there are ducks in the Frozen Mountains too.

Tavie said: how much time has AngrifIhadanyballs had to mess with Ember, at this point?


It's only been like a day and a night. Everything we've seen in the Final Quest so far has happened in that short time span. This whole issue took place over just a few minutes. Crazy to think about!

Rae_treeshaper

AYOOOAH ALL!,

Sorry I don't normally come on here much, just read the FQ #5 WOW! Who'd of known about Windkin and Khavi, Well I knew before about Khavi being Teir's mum, but my rather slow reactions heh heh on the other things, love the way it's going so far, and the yet again cliff hanger at the end hehe cant wait for the next one or the EQ show to come out wow it keeps getting better. Hope no more bad things to happen it certainly keeps you on your toes or at the edge of your seats! Shade and sweet water. THANK YOU ALL... ill have some bedtime reading for the next couple of nights on here ive so much to catch up with if i can at least.

Tavie

(I knew that Windkin was the dad because Wendy accidentally spoiled it in a Facebook comment last week but then deleted it right away so I didn't say anything but now I can say it because it's revealed in this issue!)

lunakat

@Tavie- you're awesome!

Say.. question. Someone said that Angrif Djun had fired his last bullet. Was that really his last? How do we know?

Tavie

lunakat said: @Tavie- you're awesome!



8->

Say.. question. Someone said that Angrif Djun had fired his last bullet. Was that really his last? How do we know?


I don't see it anywhere in this issue - I don't think we possibly could know. Even if there was a panel showing a "click click" of empty bullets in the barrel (which there isn't), we don't know if Two Edge provided further ammo or not...

Maybe whoever said it just meant "last" as in "most recent" to distinguish from the earlier, Ardan-killing gunshot?

Davrille

I'm too sleep-deprived to comment as much as I'd like at the moment. However, I will say I like the double entendre here:

"Beginning to sink in, is it, half-brother? Both sons dead, and a weapon that cannot reach its mark! HAHAHA!"

It's not just Two-Edge's toy Wendy meant here,methinks. =))

Thornbrake

Windkin's "comely butt" indeed! Lol.

image

Silvermane

Ok I have a stupid question I hope someone can answer it's . just who is Ember and Teirs cousin? is confuzzled.

lunakat

Dewshine

lunakat

May your confuzzlement pass.

Blackfell1

Let's see if I remember this right - correct me if wrong please.

Treestupm and Joyleaf are brother and sister. Joyleaf is Cutter's mother and Treestump is Dewshine's father. Dewshine and Cutter are cousins. Ember and Sunstream (Suntop) are Cutters cubs and Windkin is Dewshine's cub. Windkin would be Cutter's cousin and Ember and Sunstream Dewshine's cousins.

Makes Teir and Ember cousins.

Now my head is confused.

lunakat

Think of it this way:
Cutter and Dewshine are first cousins.
Windkin and Ember are second cousins.
Ember and Tier are second cousins once removed.

lunakat

May your confusion ease.

Blackfell1

Thanks lunakat.

Silvermane

Thank you! :)

DanWillig

It's strange that Windkin and Dewshine are calling him son/grandson. I mean, Windkin was only a donor essentially, that's very different than being a dad. I know, i know but these things are different for elves. The treatment of that part feels a bit off in that it reinforces the whole biology over parenting thing that so many humans on Earth who use donors or adopt face. Cutter's cousin line just really pushes it over the edge.

Good for Ember. I wonder how much Cutter will want to pressure her into continuing the lineage and making a little blood-of-twelve-chief(tess). (Seems like the pressure is there from the many of the fans on this forum but I know Ember is her own elf and strong enough to resist all the peer pressure :-j )

Looking forward to see what all the excitement on top of the mountain is all about.

Tam

I think the comments pointing out how Teir is biologically related to other elves is simply to help him realize that he's not some abandoned outcast. I don't think they're trying to say, "oh hey, Windkin is totally Dad now, screw that guy who raised you!" just, "hey, you have another family here, and that's us, and that's rad." It's to foster a sense of belonging when he didn't have one before.

Tavie said: Maybe whoever said it just meant "last" as in "most recent" to distinguish from the earlier, Ardan-killing gunshot?


I believe that was me, and yes, I meant "most recent," not "no more bullets." :)

Knightbird

Thornbrake said: Windkin's "comely butt" indeed! Lol.


Why isn't there a like button on these??? lol.
:\">

Delhya

Knightbird said: Why isn't there a like button on these??? lol.


I have thought the same thing many times ^_^

maatkare22

Welp. That settles it. The Wolfriders are more inbred than a bunch of Kentucky hillbillies.

Ok--here's my gripe with the "turn off Recognition" thing: since re-reading my lovely Dark Horse Old Testament Leetah clearly says Way Back When to Savah that, "I suffer as the Wolfrider does, from unbearable need." I never took that to mean she switched Reognition "off," but that she was old enough to resist the pull, but it still weakened her terribly, and that suffering only ended when she finally consummated with Cutter. So all this retconned certainty that Ember simply turned 'off' a switch just doesn't sit right with me.

And...I'm just gonna say it--I HATE what's been done with Ember over FQ. Here is a character who I have literally watched grow up, who has been gifted with amazing potential and...I just feel nothing great has been done with her in this arc. I know, I know, in story time it's been only a day or so but we're up to issue #5 and she's been tied up, mentally tortured and spit on, made illogical decisions for her tribe, and literally had to be rescued. If she does't get to chop some heads off next issue there's no way I'm buying the collected series. Yes, Elfmom and Elfpop, your story, your way, but damn...Cutter & Leetah's kid deserves better.

Still a fan for life.

p.s. Khavi's still a raging beeyotch.

p.p.s the 2 books I read right after FQ #5 were Storm #3 and Sensation Comics Featuring Wonder Woman #2 so my bar for strong female leads may be a tad too high.

Llannen

Tam said: Who could say no to Kahvi?


Cutter? :)

travelbug said: I think it is a very clever way of adressing the issues in our world over the expectations about having children. It is after all the norm to get married and have a family.
It can be hard both deciding to not have children (for whatever reason, it is a very personal choice) or for some reason not being able to have any (which would be a difficult experience for those who would love to have kids)
Wendy and Richard must have met some of those expectations on their way as well, as they dont have children.


Ditto to what everyone has already said along this line and I fully support those that chose their own choice. (Although I am a little saddened about Ember's choice, totally selfish on my part). I was asked and pressured by family and non-family "when are you having kids?". I found it be invasive when we didn't want to have children and then saddening when we were trying and it wasn't taking. I find myself to be very aware when around other couples, heterosexual or not, to let them bring up the topic as result.

Technically, Elfmom and Elfpop have children. They have their unruly elf children and they have their unruly tribe of us. And this tribe keeps growing, expanding and just like this issue, finding lost long "relatives" and welcoming them into the fold.
:-@

Glad that Teir has been welcomed into a very loving family after having such a strong willed/distant mother....I keep feeling like he might feel like Tullah in My Big Fat Greek Wedding shortly though, no time for a private thought! ;)

Llannen

Oh, and I will take a comely butt over a hairy chest anytime. Just my 2 cents. :O)

travelbug

I think Ember also is so rattled by what she have been through with the humans now, she'll refuse to bear the cub before they have found a world with no humans.
I think Ember's experience with the humans is the first step on the way for the elves to leave the world of two moons.
If we take the dreams of Dreamtime into it all, it will probably get a lot worse before they actually decide to go in the palace.

@Llannen, very true about Elfmom and Elfpop's many elfchildren. :)
I should have written " as Wendy and Richard have no biological children" in my previous post.

One other thing, I really like about this issue is the lack of a cliffhanger ending :)
I am exited to see what's at the mountain top, but I feel very calm about waiting until the end of November to read it ;)

Tam

Llannen said:
Tam said: Who could say no to Kahvi?


Cutter? :)


Hahaha, you're so right, you got me.

Llannen said: Oh, and I will take a comely butt over a hairy chest anytime. Just my 2 cents.


I am totally with you there.

Heather

This moment here had me with tears. It was perfectly done. And I am glad we did get to not only see her howl but also see Sust and Pike this way with Skot and Krim. It's the first time we have seen the whole family together.

pikesust

This stood out as well, Ember looks so much like Bearclaw to me in this picture. And Cutter senses a change in her. What is this going to mean?

Screen Shot 2014-09-25 at 8.00.49 AM


maatkare22 said: p.s. Khavi's still a raging beeyotch.

And I love her for it!

=))

lunakat

maatkare22 said: And...I'm just gonna say it--I HATE what's been done with Ember over FQ. Here is a character who I have literally watched grow up, who has been gifted with amazing potential and...I just feel nothing great has been done with her in this arc.


The frustrating thing about Ember is that nothing great has been done with her in any story arc- not since she grew up.

I do agree that she looks like Bearclaw in that pic- and I like it a lot. I would never have noticed it- thanks for pointing it out, Heather.

Tavie

lunakat said: Think of it this way:
Cutter and Dewshine are first cousins.
Windkin and Ember are second cousins.
Ember and Tier are second cousins once removed.


Careful, don't let Elfmom see you talking this way... scold

Tavie

maatkare22 said: I never took that to mean she switched Reognition "off," but that she was old enough to resist the pull, but it still weakened her terribly, and that suffering only ended when she finally consummated with Cutter. So all this retconned certainty that Ember simply turned 'off' a switch just doesn't sit right with me.


I felt this way at first reading, but after thinking about it and reading through the fan threads - I think there really is something to the idea that exposure to the Palace, that wearing pieces of the Palace close to you at all times, are causing the elves to evolve, more rapidly, into the powerful beings that their ancestors were. Ember's ability to refuse Recognition seems a logical effect of that (and healers were there to help, too, remember) - it doesn't feel like a retcon to me when you think of that. Think of the insert of Cutter and Leetah - "More change?" Elves are changing. This is all leading somewhere.

lunakat

I didn't get the impression that Ember fully killed recognition- mostly because Mender and Leetah were needed to really put an end to it. I thought she just kind of shoved it to the side temporarily.

Tavie said: Careful, don't let Elfmom see you talking this way...

If Elfmom didn't want to open that can of worms- she shouldn't have labeled them cousins. I fully agree that analyzing the interconnections is sort of silly- but the elves are apparently aware of them, or Cutter wouldn't call Dewshine his cousin, and Ember wouldn't tell Tier he was hers. Hey- that only makes sense. Plus, someone asked- and the way it worked out was pretty simple and clear.

Knightbird

Heather said: This moment here had me with tears. It was perfectly done. And I am glad we did get to not only see her howl but also see Sust and Pike this way with Skot and Krim. It's the first time we have seen the whole family together.


I think we all needed to see this. When a character dies, when it's a beloved character, we all need closure. We want to see those who are left behind succeed, this will help. They have feelings too...they are real to us.

Thornbrake

Llannen said: Oh, and I will take a comely butt over a hairy chest anytime. Just my 2 cents.


I will take 'em both! ;)

RedheadEmber

Okay, I'm really glad they're both alive and well, though it did seem a tad-bit that was quick! However, I'm sure they won't be at peace for long.

As for Kahvi. I'm... a bit of two-minds about her. On one hand, she's clearly misandric, what with her talk about a lad always being a disappointment. On the other hand, well, she could have just left him in the snow (or wilderness) the moment he was born, insteadt she made sure he'd be raised by someone who'd want him.
I quite like the idea that Windkin is the sire. Just goes to show that elves don't have the same "issues" we might have with something like that.
About making genealogies, for me it's not so much about finding out exactly relation everyone is to everyone (and pretty much everyone is related to everyone) but to marble over how completely tangled the Elfquest family tree is.

I'm a bit worried about Ember's attitude towards the human children, she seem to have gotten a new kind of resentment towards humans, as Cutter put it: "There's no blood but she's still been hurt deeply." Understandably, but I'm still worried it'll put her against the good humans.

And... what is it they're seeing at the end?? IT'S NOT FAIR THAT WE HAVE TO WAIT TWO MONTHS TO FIND OUT! I might have done the look-really-close-in-hope-of-seeing-what's-going-on thing. I know it doesn't work like that.






BTW: Glad Darshek didn't die! ;)

DanWillig

Ahdri put it so well years ago:
ElfQuest Comic Viewer - Kings of the Broken Wheel - 8

Knightbird

I was thinking about the end and "Forevergreen" came to mind from "New Blood", but I think I'm on the wrong continent. :-/

Davrille

Now that I'm not so sleep-deprived anymore, back to comment!

There's a lot going on with the idea of family in this issue. We have the Big Reveal (Windkin is Teir's father) along with the Big Confirmation (Kahvi is his mother). In a matter of moments Teir gains a whole new blood family who are able and willing --unlike Kahvi -- to accept him with love and respect simply for being their relative, something he's missed all lhis life; it's no wonder he doubt his own ability to be a parent. Angrif Djun is forced to realize with his sons dead and his own inability to sire more ("...and a weapon that cannot reach its mark!". Still say Wendy's not talking about the gun there.) For the first time since the end of Shards we see Skywise treat like Yun a daughter. Sust meets his other sire, and Skot the fawn he wanted to make so he could rest.

There's a lot going on with parenting, too. Kahvi abandoned Teir to go off to die, yes; and she was disappointed Teir was a son and not the "last, strong-hearted girl-fawn" she wanted for legacy. But she left him with Go-Backs able to care for him, and didn't want Teir to know of that disappointment. She watched over him, but she didn't help him because she didn't think she needed it. Even when he was injured and near death. (Now that's tough love!) Kahvi knew her limits as a mother, accepted them and worked with them.

Most of them, anyway. Stags might not pine for the doe that drops them, but elves aren't stags. Different people, different tempraments.

Ember's an echo of Kahvi here, in a way. She doesn't want to have a child right now. For an elf, and particularly for a Wolfrider, admitting that has got to be a big deal. Especially since there's no guarantee either she or Teir will live to have a chance to have Mender and Leetah jump-start Recognition. Her (stated) reason isn't even dealing with the trauma of her time as Angrif's captive; it's wanting to focus on her love and attention on Teir. Part of me wonders, though, if there isn't a purely selfish "I just don't want to right now" deep in her mind.

In the Emerald Con panel video, Wendy said something like, "No one's safe." I think we the readers should amend that to "nothing's safe", including familiar concepts like Recognition. I had a "WTF? But - but - but-- gahhh!" reaction to Leetah and Mender's "work-around" for Teir and Ember. I'm not entirely sure I like it, but from a plot perspective, the attempt at least makes sense. Everyone involved is in a piece of the Palace; Ember has already "found the power to choose" within herself; Teir's still suffering and neither her nor Ember want to have the child. Why not try it?

I wonder if this is also foreshadowing of another effect of Palace-living for elves: the closer they return to the state of the Coneheads, the less they'll need Recognition.

I don't think Ember looks like Bearclaw, but that's just me. I do think she's having serious second thoughts about Khorbasi's mission to save three (he fudged and went for four, but who's counting? If the burned girl is Molli, she's the best of the bunch) after what she witnessed with Angrif. She only saw Geoki, Nonna and Adar and the rest of the Hoan G'taysho from a distance. Same with Shuna. She lived with Khorbasi, yes, but he's one human. Even if they're cubs, they're still unpredictable.

I saw a suggestion that the sanctuary may be the work of Aurek, but I'm wondering if it's not Two-Edge. Or a hidey-hole of his. Because Wendy can be just that sadistic. ;)

From the blurb for next issue, I think we're going to have another jump ahead in the story's timeline, at least of several months. Chopping down the forest, shipping it back to Angrif's home turf and turning it into the ships of a war fleet is going to take time. If that's the case, I wonder if the "work around" will turn out not to have worked so well, and that's the reason for the little image of Cutter and Leetah cradling Ember.

Two things I really liked: Sonni's coloring of spirit! Kahvi, and Dewshine's comment about having found a grandson. That's a nice reflection back to their conversation in the Special about belonging and fitting in.

jeb

I'm not sure how I feel about this turning off Recognition thing. On the one hand, I really support the idea that no one should have children if they are not sure they want to. On the other, the biological imperative of Recognition leads to such fun and disturbing thought exercises.

One thing I did like about the idea of Recognition, is that once the it happened, the elves seemed to value children so much. I don't like it that that idea seems to be gone. Kahvi abandons a child just because it's not female. Windkin doesn't even care enough to think what happens to the child he helped create. If this is the way things are changing, maybe not having kids is a really good idea.

Although I've never liked the character of Tier, I feel sorry for the guy here. It seems like the decision not to have kids was very much hers.

RichardPini

Davrille said: I'm too sleep-deprived to comment as much as I'd like at the moment. However, I will say I like the double entendre here:

"Beginning to sink in, is it, half-brother? Both sons dead, and a weapon that cannot reach its mark! HAHAHA!"

It's not just Two-Edge's toy Wendy meant here,methinks.


Youthinks correctly, grasshopper. 8-X

MultiFacets

When the elves have to leave Abode, the Palace will only be able to support a finite population, much like Blue Mountain. Being able to refuse Recognition, or at least postpone it until there's a new world to live on for a little while, could be a good thing. So while I'm like many other readers in feeling "Wait, that's not how it works. Ah well, it's their canon, they can do as they wish with it," being able to do that will only help.

And when the mortal Wolfriders go extinct, and only Go-Backs, Sun Folk, and Wavedanders are left, being able to control the population in space will become even more important. Which makes me wonder who will accept it (Skywise and Timmain, obviously, else there'd be no Jink), and who will be able to push it away?

And I admit, I am glad Ember and Teir are accepting they're not ready to be parents. The power to choose is something too many people don't use. If Recognition does strike again, though, and they choose to have a cub, I hope they'll be happy and able to raise it in a healthy way.

Llannen

Thornbrake said: I will take 'em both!




=)) =))

Tavie

Ember's "I've never been much interested in the young ones" was foreshadowing! Day-um!image

wingthing

Maatkare22 said: Welp. That settles it. The Wolfriders are more inbred than a bunch of Kentucky hillbillies.

Bwaahahahahaaaaaa!!!
And...I'm just gonna say it--I HATE what's been done with Ember over FQ. Here is a character who I have literally watched grow up, who has been gifted with amazing potential and...I just feel nothing great has been done with her in this arc. I know, I know, in story time it's been only a day or so but we're up to issue #5 and she's been tied up, mentally tortured and spit on, made illogical decisions for her tribe, and literally had to be rescued. If she does't get to chop some heads off next issue there's no way I'm buying the collected series. Yes, Elfmom and Elfpop, your story, your way, but damn...Cutter & Leetah's kid deserves better.
>


I have a real hard time feeling much sympathy for what Ember has gone through, considering she basically let herself be captured and then refused to call for rescue until the plotline demanded it. Especially since she KNOWS what these humans are capable of - the Wild Hunt storyline saw Pike tortured and nearly executed, the tribe poisoned, Pool kidnapped, etc. Frankly, there's nothing Angrif has done to her (Fun with Gunpowder notwithstanding) that she hasn't already seen.

Looks like this whole exploit will be the "final straw" in Ember's love-hate relationship with humans, but I find it strange that she's so shaken by it - lest I get on another loooooong rant about Scouter's coup, THAT whole arc of Wild Hunt seemed far more disillusioning and traumatic than one night being menaced by humans.

RedheadEmber

Davrille said: ("...and a weapon that cannot reach its mark!". Still say Wendy's not talking about the gun there.)


I did not think about it that way?

Davrille said: If the burned girl is Molli, she's the best of the bunch)


And if she isn't Molli, she's still the best of the bunch.



Davrille said: and Dewshine's comment about having found a grandson. That's a nice reflection back to their conversation in the Special about belonging and fitting in.


What I like about that conversation is the fact that while I think a lot of us thought it was just a hint that Windkin would turn up soon, it was actually a hint of the relation between Windkin and Teir. No wonder Teir reminded Dewshine of Windkin!

elfquestfanAZ

I have a problem with Windkin being a dad. Having been an Elfquest since my late teens, I've read the early issues and know that Suntop and Ember are older than Windkin. They were pre-teens when Windkin was born in Blue Mountain where some of Cutter's tribe members were captives and where Dewshine met Tyldak and recognized with him and gave birth to Windkin sometime later. So there is about 10-12 years of age gap between Windkin and the twins. So, considering that, Windkin is a dad to a full grown man? While Sunstream just had a baby girl and Ember could opt for a cub if she accepted the recognition with Teir. Just doesn't jive that Windkin could be a dad to a full grown man, who is the same age as the twins. Does not fit the timeline. Based on what I know about Windkin and the twins, Windkin should be around the age of late teens or very young adult. So, how could he be the dad of Teir? A full grown man, the same age as his own dad? Simply doesn't make sense at all. I would believe it better if Teir is the child of Kahvi and Tyldak, but definitely not Windkin.

jorenm93

elfquestfanAZ said: I have a problem with Windkin being a dad. Having been an Elfquest since my late teens, I've read the early issues and know that Suntop and Ember are older than Windkin. They were pre-teens when Windkin was born in Blue Mountain where some of Cutter's tribe members were captives and where Dewshine met Tyldak and recognized with him and gave birth to Windkin sometime later. So there is about 10-12 years of age gap between Windkin and the twins. So, considering that, Windkin is a dad to a full grown man? While Sunstream just had a baby girl and Ember could opt for a cub if she accepted the recognition with Teir. Just doesn't jive that Windkin could be a dad to a full grown man, who is the same age as the twins. Does not fit the timeline. Based on what I know about Windkin and the twins, Windkin should be around the age of late teens or very young adult. So, how could he be the dad of Teir? A full grown man, the same age as his own dad? Simply doesn't make sense at all. I would believe it better if Teir is the child of Kahvi and Tyldak, but definitely not Windkin.

Jhm.. Actually Windkin is 10.000 years old. The Palace disappeared, remember?

Embala

elfquestfanAZ said: So there is about 10-12 years of age gap between Windkin and the twins.
You are right about their age gap at birth, @elfquestfanAZ.

Do the "early issues" include the Kings of the broken Wheel story arc? If not the following will contain SPOILERS ...
.
.
.
Rayek has kidnapped the Palace, with Suntop and Ember in it, to the far future. When the Elves were reunited only one or two dasy had passed for those who were in the Palace. Suntop and Ember were still preteens.

For the other Elves it was wait of 10,000 years. The mortal Wolfriders went in wrapstuff to survive the time. The immortals - including Windkin - were alive and active all the time.
Windkin is thousands of years older now than the twins. Old enough to have sired a whole dynasty of descendents - one son was an easy task.


EDIT: jorenm93 pinned the point while I was still writing! Must learn to keep my comments short. ;)

jorenm93

Tomorrow I'll finally have my copy :D

jeb

More disjointed thoughts as I digest this.

Regarding the thoughts about Ember not being affected by the palace since she wasn't living in it. The influence of the palace is bigger than the planet. All elves everywhere are being affected by it. As I was contemplating this in a hazy, half-asleep state, I wondered if the palaces aura is so big, why hadn't been affecting the elves this whole time? Why did they have all the affects of being deprived of it's influence? Then I remembered that it had to be activated by all those spirits living in it.

I also am wondering about Cutter asking Strongbow to take his place when the little pod gathers them up. Take his place where? As acting chief? Why Strongbow when that's traditionally been Treestump's position. There was really no need for the comment storywise so I wonder if that will mean something later.

Tavie

jeb said: As I was contemplating this in a hazy, half-asleep state, I wondered if the palaces aura is so big, why hadn't been affecting the elves this whole time? Why did they have all the affects of being deprived of it's influence? Then I remembered that it had to be activated by all those spirits living in it.


Proximity seems to be a factor when it comes to the Palace's magic affecting changes in the elves. After it was "awakened" so long ago by the spirits of the Gliders, that is - that's why, I presume the Go-Backs could live practically on top of it for so many millennia and seem to be totally untouched by magic*, but since "activation", living in or near the Palace does seem to be affecting changes more quickly:

palace



*Teir's gifted adopted dad notwithstanding...

Heather

jeb said: I also am wondering about Cutter asking Strongbow to take his place when the little pod gathers them up. Take his place where? As acting chief? Why Strongbow when that's traditionally been Treestump's position. There was really no need for the comment storywise so I wonder if that will mean something later.

I was wondering the same thing and then I remembered that Treestump isn't spending as much time in the Holt now as he is working the forges. Strongbow is in the Holt, he's closer and he also has a lot more years on him that he didn't have in the OQ and SaBM. So it makes sense.

lunakat

I'm not sure it's clear if the elves have to be close to the Palace or not- as in living in it or touching a piece of it- for the kinds of changes we've seen to start taking place... but the Palace, in it's activated state, hasn't been around that long. Rayek hurtled the souls of the Gliders into it, and essentially "woke it up". (Though one might wonder why all those generations of elves living and dying prior, and returning in spirit to the Palace didn't have the same effect- I'm assuming that Rayek's previous efforts and some conscious intent were needed.) Almost immediately after that, he stole it from the planet for 10,000 years. So during the Kings storyline, there was less Palace influence than there would ever have been before... It's only been around since the return- and that's about- what? thirty/forty years? Enough time for the Shards War, Ember's Wild Hunt storyline- and Korafaye and Shunapek to grow up.

lunakat

The Shards War took maybe a year- right? How long was Ember chief during the Wild Hunt stories? Twenty years? And then probably another close to twenty years for Shunapek and Korafaye to become adults. That's how long the elves have had a functioning Palace- and that's the amount of time it would have had to influence them.

RedheadEmber

Embala said: Windkin is thousands of years older now than the twins.


And his mother... and his grandsire...



lunakat said: The Shards War took maybe a year- right? How long was Ember chief during the Wild Hunt stories? Twenty years? And then probably another close to twenty years for Shunapek and Korafaye to become adults.


I always got the impression that the Wild Hunt stories were supposed to have taken place during that 20-odd-year time skip from Korafay's birth to the end of the Special.

jeb said: I also am wondering about Cutter asking Strongbow to take his place when the little pod gathers them up. Take his place where? As acting chief? Why Strongbow when that's traditionally been Treestump's position.


Because Treestump at least once has clearly stated that he doesn't want it. Strongbow was also acting chief when they first went to meet the Wavedancers after Sunstream's and Brill's Recognition.



Tavie said: I presume the Go-Backs could live practically on top of it for so many millennia and seem to be totally untouched by magic


If you're referring to the time from when they started feeling the Palace's pull and settled down at the Lodge (the one where we first meet them) it was that long, just "twelve eights and some" according to one Go-Back youth during OQ16.

lunakat

RedheadEmber said: I always got the impression that the Wild Hunt stories were supposed to have taken place during that 20-odd-year time skip from Korafay's birth to the end of the Special.


OMG- that makes so much sense! Because then Sunstream and Ember would, like, be the same age and not have a twenty year age gap. Doh.

OKay- so it's only been about twenty years that the Palace has been back and functioning on the Wo2M. I stand completely and rightfully corrected!

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Because then Sunstream and Ember would, like, be the same age and not have a twenty year age gap.


Naah... just a three-year one.

elfquestfanAZ

Embala said: For the other Elves it was wait of 10,000 years. The mortal Wolfriders went in wrapstuff to survive the time. The immortals - including Windkin - were alive and active all the time.
Windkin is thousands of years older now than the twins. Old enough to have sired a whole dynasty of descendents - one son was an easy task.


Ok! I will need to dig Kings of the Broken Wheel and read again! I do remember the wrapstuff but apparently missed that those in the Palace aged much slower and returned essentially the same age when they left.

Thanks for clearing that up! I struggled from within when I read couple ago that Windkin is Teir's dad. I know this is just a fantasy animated story but readers ARE literal sometimes!

RedheadEmber

elfquestfanAZ said: Ok! I will need to dig Kings of the Broken Wheel and read again! I do remember the wrapstuff but apparently missed that those in the Palace aged much slower and returned essentially the same age when they left.


It's not so much that they aged slower as it's the didn't age at all. For them the time between Disappearance and Reappearance of the Palace was like this *SNAP* a blink-of-an-eye.

And yeah... this timeline thing it's confusing.

Embala

They basically did not age at all. Look at it this way, @elfquestfanAZ:

You enter a time machine and make a jump of 10,000 years into the future. This does not take time at all. No aging. Then you spend a day there ...

... while your tribemates and kin stay back and need to live on (or sleep) for 10,000 years. They need about a day or two to discover the Palace who has fallen back in time (in fact Picky did) and get there. Thus the immortals aged 10,000 years and the Wolfriders about 500 years (rest of the time they spent in wrapstuff).

captainvimes

Well, that was quite an issue! It's great to see that a few of those all important questions are being answered.
I thought both the art and the general pacing of the story was very well done...
My only niggle is that I feel that the major events feel a bit rushed, and I can't help but link that to the short page count per issue, less panels per page compared to the 'old days'. It feels like certain emotions/events/moments of impact now are told uber-quickly in speech bubbles rather than shown, and I always thought that Wendy and Richard excelled at the whole showing not telling thing. This way, it somehow takes a little bit away of the impact..? Or is that just me. I dunno... It does, to me, make this story feel different. Not any less, not bad, just different. And we're only 5 issues in, so hey :)

It must be a hell of a job to write this script and put so much 'big' stuff in such short bites so I'm not complaining or pointing fingers towards the Pini's. Hell, the last few issues have made me more and more excited and I feel like, now that the pressure of the rescue is off, we'll see more 'breathing room' in the story, give the characters a chance to collect themselves, especially Teir. Maybe this event has been the setup, the opening act. I think issue 6 will wrap up the first collection? I'm guessing they'll have a big cliffhanger/surprise up their sleeves ;-)
The anticipation is back just like all those years ago, and it's a good feeling!

About recognition:
Ember being able to ignore recognition: the palace's influence? I feel like it is. Recognition has always been more common with the wolfriders, right? Because their lifestyle of danger needed it. Blue mountain elves stopped recognizing, if I remember correctly winnowill said so in the first quest. More change indeed... And quite interesting that it is happening to the wolfchief who was supposed to guard 'the way'.


Sadachbia

So brown hair / brown eyes + brown hair / green eyes —> black hair / gray eyes???

I know Wendy said elfin genetics aren't exactly the same as human genetics, but that still doesn't make a whole lot of sense ._.;

Then again, I'm the kind of person who if I'd been Sunstream and seen a silver-haired pip come out of my lifemate, I'd have gone and punched Skywise in the face.

lunakat

Sadachbia said: Then again, I'm the kind of person who if I'd been Sunstream and seen a silver-haired pip come out of my lifemate, I'd have gone and punched Skywise in the face.


Whahahahahah! :)) Hah! Okay.. that was funny.

You know, when we were first introduced to Tier back in 'Hidden Years'- I actually thought he would turn out to be Skywise's offspring. Mostly because of that scene in which they both stared each other down and had the same grey eyes.

RedheadEmber

Korafay's hair isn't silver, it's sea-foam coloured.

travelbug

Could it be possible that the palace itself can remove wolfblood from wolfriders?

Sadachbia

RedheadEmber said:
Korafay's hair isn't silver, it's sea-foam coloured.


It's still pretty silvery, especially when you compare it to Brill's brown hair and Sunstream's golden-blond, and it was quite pale when she was born. The best way I can rationalise it is Brill's father's hair (turquoise) skipping a generation, and then mixing with the blond from Sunstream (or the paler blond from Cutter), but I still would have expected that to yield a more saturated green. *shrug*

Sadachbia

Also, I looked up cousins on Wikipedia, and have determined that since Dewshine and Cutter were first cousins, Windkin and Ember would be second cousins. Korafay and Teir are third cousins, but I don't think there's a name for how Ember and Teir are related; he'd be like her third-cousin-nephew and she's like his second-cousin-aunt, since they're in separate generations in regards to their common ancestry.

I've never liked the idea of "kissing cousins" (or "joining cousins", I guess would be more accurate for elves), even though science shows that human cousins generally have no more in common with each other than two random unrelated people. Still, if Pool didn't turn out to be an inbred flipper-baby, I guess Ember and Teir's kid won't either; they're even further apart than Scouter and Tyleet's canon blood-relation.

RedheadEmber

I'd say Ember and Teir are second cousins-once-removed...

jorenm93

"Thank the high ones you've not only my blood in you, but your splendid sire's as well!"

Does this mean Teir can fly? He seems to 'fly' to the surface in that scene

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