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[SPOILERS] Final Quest #7

Eyeshigh

I think the call of the Palace comes from the Palace, not the place it stands.
If other elfes felt the scream of the High Ones, they would have come to Thorny Mountain Holt where it was send out to the world.... but the Palace dissapeared and we haven't seen other elfes, beside Kahvi, Aroree, Tyldak and Vennka, but they were directed by Savah... so, save to say the scream dissapeared with the Palace.

So if Sunstream would call other Elfes, they would go to the Palace. If it were moved they'd change direction. Kind of like a mobile-phone, it signals from where it is, not where you life...

Oh, and now that Freetouch is Ember's new tanner, what will Tyleet do? Will they work together or will she look for something else to do? Don't know if she had other responibilities, but I do know she was the tanner....

Tavie

maatkare22 said: "I'm nowhere as good as you" came off as ominous and very "All About Eve"-ish to me.


INTERESTING. I first had a little trouble parsing this scene and thought Mender was saying he was nowhere near as "good" meaning "talented" as they, but of course that doesn't really make sense, and he really WAS saying I'm nowhere near as "good" meaning "moral" as you.

Ahhhh.

Well.

Knightbird

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but this stuck me as odd. On the page where Skywise and Sunstream is being lead by Timmain to Cutter. Cutter could have been doing anything by that stream. Sharping New Moon, taking a nap, or even getting a drink of water.....but why is he looking at that key in the hilt of his sword?

Arvins

Oh, there's that comment

janus_majere said: One thing got me chuckling though. After reading about Shenshen's revelation on what she wants to do with her life, I couldn't help but wonder if her life's work would be similar to what humans (as in us on Earth) go through when deciding that they want to be a veterinarian. I know it sounds odd, but if you think about it, we are talking about two different species here. While I understand there is a difference between bestial beings and self aware beings, the gray area in between the black and white is the biology... and the wanting to help those outside our innate species.


Let me start by stating that I am a veterinarian, and that this comparison is both good and bad. I often get confronted with: "but why are you treating animal disease? Wouldn't you rather be a REAL doctor/Don't you find humans more important". Obviously, these are not the comments I like the most, but it baffles me how so many humans don't see that we are not the sole species on this planet, and that our very existences would be impossible without the rest of our ecosystem. Basically, the health of animals benefit humans much more than our health benefits theirs. Food safety, production control, epidemiology, "one-health" concept (mainly concerning microbe resistance and cross-over effects) as well as the research of basically everything we eat to safety of drugs/medication to cosmetics are all based on the use of animal models. Not only do I proudly reply to these (to me, odd) comments, that mainly I think people complain to much, and I like the challenge of treating more than one species, but I indirectly prevent human outbreaks and secure their food supply (Outburst over, I'm sorry, but this hit a nerve)
As for the good comparison, yes, EQ has always fronted the link between species, between life/death, and that only by sustainable use of resources can you succeed long term, and that co-existing with all other beings is the key to survival. However, choosing to become a veterinarian is more like when elfin healers heal humans, not when elves shapechange into another being. And like Leetah says, treating another species is far more complicated and demanding
3:-O

maatkare22

Knightbird said: but why is he looking at that key in the hilt of his sword?
I think he's just reminiscing & focusing himself...that key brought momentous change to the world of elves and he's about to embark on another huge step. Sort of looking through a photo album IMHO.

Leowyldemi

i couldn't help but pick up this issue, however when i saw that shenshen talking,andthat she was considering a huge change, i saw what she wanted to do, i wasn't as blindsided as some. especially with the tribe's views toward humans beginning to change, the adoptees, the children, even ember's views are beginning to change. so while the change is huge, i saw what she wanted to do.

lunakat

@Arvins- I think the comparison wasn't Shen Shen morphing into a human, but ShenShen essentially playing obstetrician or midwife to the humans.

Yes, I think that Cutter is looking at the key because he suppose to be reminiscing on the quest.

janus_majere

maatkare22 said: HAAHHHAAHHAHAH!!! I LOVE this idea!! But let's be more charitable and say she's the elfin Jane Goodall. (Goodall's books reveal a deep spirituality and love for all life which surely Shenshen shares.)


I'm down with that comparison. ;)

janus_majere

Arvins said: Let me start by stating that I am a veterinarian, and that this comparison is both good and bad. I often get confronted with: "but why are you treating animal disease? Wouldn't you rather be a REAL doctor/Don't you find humans more important". Obviously, these are not the comments I like the most, but it baffles me how so many humans don't see that we are not the sole species on this planet, and that our very existences would be impossible without the rest of our ecosystem. Basically, the health of animals benefit humans much more than our health benefits theirs. Food safety, production control, epidemiology, "one-health" concept (mainly concerning microbe resistance and cross-over effects) as well as the research of basically everything we eat to safety of drugs/medication to cosmetics are all based on the use of animal models. Not only do I proudly reply to these (to me, odd) comments, that mainly I think people complain to much, and I like the challenge of treating more than one species, but I indirectly prevent human outbreaks and secure their food supply (Outburst over, I'm sorry, but this hit a nerve)


For what it's worth Arvins, my tone was not to dismiss the value of what veterinarian's provide, in comparison to "real doctors". I feel we each have our own attributes that suit us well for what we enjoy doing, or help us get the task at hand done. Hell, I can remember having to remove Cuterebra from my pet rabbit long ago, and my family couldn't understand why I wasn't grossed out... but don't get me anywhere near a human beings major wound. lol

In the case of Leetah and Shenshen, Leetah's innate powers allow her to be a elven healer best, but Shenshen enjoys her midwife skills. It is what it is. Both have their skills to attribute mainly to their species (and now, for Shenshen, outside her species), and that's all I meant by it.



Arvins said: As for the good comparison, yes, EQ has always fronted the link between species, between life/death, and that only by sustainable use of resources can you succeed long term, and that co-existing with all other beings is the key to survival. However, choosing to become a veterinarian is more like when elfin healers heal humans, not when elves shapechange into another being. And like Leetah says, treating another species is far more complicated and demanding


I think it still applies though. Shenshen's shape-change is due to the need to be in disguise because the human's of Abode are still mainly fearful of elven-kind... so it was a necessary change to give her safety every advantage.

lunakat

I wonder if Mender's callous attitude toward life and death is going to be a problem in the future. Does anyone else think Mender sort of verges on sociopathy? Maybe not, because he seemed to care for Yun.

Weaver

Knightbird said:
  • I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but this stuck me as odd. On the page where Skywise and Sunstream is being lead by Timmain to Cutter. Cutter could have been doing anything by that stream. Sharping New Moon, taking a nap, or even getting a drink of water.....but why is he looking at that key in the hilt of his sword?















  • I have been wondering the same thing. Perhaps there's more to that key than we've been led to believe...only Two-Edge knows for sure but I have a feeling we have a surprise in store.

    Knightbird

    Weaver said: I have been wondering the same thing. Perhaps there's more to that key than we've been led to believe...only Two-Edge knows for sure but I have a feeling we have a surprise in store.


    He said that on the first page. I believe there is more to that key or they wouldn't have brought it up.

    captainvimes

    You know what would be awesome? If, after this final quest story line is over, Wendy and Richard would reveal to us what bits of story or events or twists or hints they had already planned out from the very first issue / original quest...
    I'd LOVE that :)

    Weaver

    Knightbird said: He said that on the first page

    Exactly my point.

    Knightbird said: I believe there is more to that key or they wouldn't have brought it up.

    And posted another photo of it on the FB page last week. The endless hints!

    Eyeshigh

    Have you seen what Sonny Strait placed on FB....... the biggest tease!! And I am not just talking about what he placed on FB, he is too!
    I am sorry, but I can't put the link here... is not working at the moment.
    He showed some pages! Not the 4 we know, but an editional 7 pages......!!!! Not very clear, can't read the words, but OMHO, look at Mender's face! YummYumm!!

    maatkare22

    lunakat said: I wonder if Mender's callous attitude toward life and death is going to be a problem in the future. Does anyone else think Mender sort of verges on sociopathy?
    Yeah, I think many of us have been getting an "uh-oh" vibe. I still think his "I'm nowhere as good as them...or you." is pretty damn ominous because he is NOT referring to his healing/warrior skills. And back when Rayek got his Big Beatdown from Cutter Mender was gleefully exhorting "Yessss! Go for the kill!" from the sidelines. Dude's got major issues.

    Llannen

    janus_majere said: After reading about Shenshen's revelation on what she wants to do with her life, I couldn't help but wonder if her life's work would be similar to what humans (as in us on Earth) go through when deciding that they want to be a veterinarian.




    Arvins said: I often get confronted with: "but why are you treating animal disease? Wouldn't you rather be a REAL doctor/Don't you find humans more important".


    @Arvins: Hi fellow veterinarian.....

    I was pressured to go into human medicine vs. veterinary medicine but it was a complicated thing...I am also Native American/American Indian/whatever you want it to be to be PC and there is a strong need for Native Americans on the reservations, doing both human and animals. There was a group or club at my college that was called AIRO (American Indian Research Opportunities) and they also helped those coming off the reservation adapt to life away from the reservation and they did provide a lot of support to us in the sciences, they really wanted me to go to medical school. I chose my own path, they still supported me and we are all happy. I may not be on a reservation now but I work close to one and work with a rescue group.

    I dont' think janus_majere was trying to strike a nerve. At the same time I get where you come from. There is so much the public doesn't understand about what we do or our schooling but have heart fellow tribesmate-those that get it "get it". And they make it worthwhile everyday.

    Now excuse me because I gotta go see what Sonny posted!!!

    Eyeshigh

    =)) =)) ;)

    Zeina

    I like Mender's darker side mingled with the selfless healing. I hope he doesn't become blandified and all 'good' or whatever. I like him having some issues...and I hope it stays that way without him dipping into either extreme. He's a hell of a lot more interesting now than he's ever been before.

    catray

    I am currently waiting for my "hard copy" to get to my house from TFAW but I caved and bought the digital version this morning because I couldn't stand it anymore! So glad I did!

    Really glad to see Venka, Aroree, and Two-Edge again-- I have missed Venka and can't wait to see what the Final Quest has in store for these three (and the Go-Backs).

    As for Shenshen-- I can't say I'm totally surprised. I think Ryan or David speculated about the potential for this in an earlier podcast and reading this issue, I feel like she is making the right choice! I might be crazy, but I'm oddly proud that Shenshen is choosing to give up her elfin life (for now) and go out into the world to pursue her passion. Good on ya, girl! Plus, I love the threads that started in Dreamtime are emerging and solidifying in the Final Quest. Of course, it begs the question-- if the Palace leaves Abode and Cutter and Leetah go with it; does Shenshen stay as a human or elf, or does she go with the Palace?

    Mender was a little bit scary this issue-- I hope he doesn't turn into another Winnowill type, but I think he definitely has that potential. It feels like this could be a hint but then at this rate, anything could!

    Stormsong8

    Not entirely sure how i would feel if mender or Leetah went bonkers, and did something evil. With Winni we knew she was no good from the start, but both Mender and Leetah have inherently good natures. There is also this what if thing....What if Winnie somehow went from Reyek to Mender? Would he be able to reign her in?

    Zeina

    Winnie's demise will be a gigantic group hug a la Palace.

    lunakat

    Well.. Mender, unlike Rayek, might have the lack of conscience necessary to completely obliterate her spirit. Which I guess, in elf terms, would be the worst form of murder, because it's final.

    What did Sonny post? All I see is a video of him flipping through the most recently released issue.

    Llannen

    catray said: I think Ryan or David speculated about the potential for this in an earlier podcast and reading this issue, I feel like she is making the right choice!


    It was Ryan....I went and listened to the podcast again. But he mentioned it only once and then they got sidetracked by a tangent. Again. ;)

    maatkare22

    By the way...if that last panel is anything to go by...isn't Shenshen now a very, very short human?

    Arvins

    @janus_majere @Llannen
    Thank you both for your replies and for being understanding. I didn't see the comment as spiteful, but like Llannen said, it strikes a nerve sometimes.

    Now on to FQ! Loving this issue, and so glad to finally see some more tension building up and some choices being made. Am I the only one slightly let down by the fact that Skywise/Cutter is showing off soooo much flesh on the cover, and so little inside the issue? So far we've only gotten hints on new lovemates forming (Like Chitter juggling most of Embers tribe) but there hasn't been a proper juicy scene since the making of Corafay ;) I hope Wendy isn't going to hard on being family friendly.

    As for Mender, it's a nice twist to see him somewhat confronted by Dart. And all the glaring can (hopefully) only mean that Wendy is keeping her promise of a same-sexed couple. I can't help to think about Kimo and his comment on "next time, when eyes meet eyes" like some prophecy. How about Mender, Dart and Kimo as a threemating? 8->

    RedheadEmber

    Right, did so not expect Shenshen's choice! :-O But thinking about it, it does make a lot of sense; her entire story-line so far seem to have been tied with her Shine where you love dream, the dream in which she saw a five-fingered Tyleet.
    Speaking of Tyleet; kinda nice to see they're picking up the thing with the white strands in her hair, and Dewshine referring to her as "my Tyleet", is also rather sweet. :-* !Dewshine


    I also like the fact that Venka:

    1: Wants to meet her Brother as soon as possible.
    2: Can't believe that Kahvi hated Rayek as much as she said. >:> :|


    Oh... and please, please please! Somebody draw the image of Brill's hair being stuck!




    Tam said: -Ohler and Newstar are officially a couple!


    Thought they'd been that for a while!

    Few more thoughts:

    Dart and relationships: Seriously; what's with that guy and the Rainsong-Woodlock family? !Rainsong
    He had some fun with Newstar when they were younger (might still have).
    He recognized Wing's daughter.
    He has a rather close relationship with Kimo. :o3
    And now he might be hitting if off with Mender.

    Mender and Sust look so alike with their wolfish grins! Can't help but Wonder if the family-relation between them will be adressed. Sure; Sust may not actually have been sired by Pike, but he's still his son, which makes Sust and Mender cousins.

    Thornbrake

    Episode 15 of the ElfQuest Show Podcast is live! Ryan and I dive deep into issue #7 of the Final Quest and talk about which of our predictions came true and which didn't, with discussions on Shenshen, Sunstream, Dart, Freetouch, Mender, Tyleet, Dewshine and Cutter's Quest.

    Give it a listen here and let us know what YOU think.

    RedheadEmber

    One more thing I forgot to mention:

    Filcher stealing Sun-Toucher's staff! :) And the ensuing hunt for it!

    sulken

    I already had an inkling that some elves might turn into humans. In Dreamtime there are some who dream of an unusual solution, and turning into humans is just that.


    Dart and Mender <3 Kimo is rather bland, while Mender is quite the opposite. Maybe he had less qualms about killing Go Backs during the raid than Dart did...

    Davrille

    #7 is definitely the "setting things up" issue for the next plot arc.

    I'm wondering if Shen-Shen is going to be how the Wolfriders find out about Angrif's flotilla. The WaveDancers are another option, but as we've seen from the recent plane crashes, the ocean is huge. Where the WaveDancers are in relation to Angrif's fleet depends on how fast they find out.

    I've had a soft spot for Venka since [i]Shards{/i]. "...to .. .talk to me" reads to me like she knows she's being courted/wooed, even if she can't put the phrase proper into words.

    I think Mender's going to have a crisis of faith, and have to face the choice Dart points out Winnowill made.

    lunakat

    It does seem to be a set up for something to happen with Mender down the line.

    Mender is so much more interesting now than he ever used to be. I sort of have the hots for him... if you can have the hots for an imaginary character. Confirming that i have questionable taste in men. I guess I respect that he's a cold, blooded killer, and doesn't mince words about it. He's not trying to make it anything other than what it is. Like- if you mess with me, I will kill you. If not, we're cool. It's so straight forward. I also like how he didn't lose his cool at any point when the humans were chasing the elves. He was the flat opposite of Tier. That's kind of hot. Possibly sociopathic- but also hot. I can see where Yun is coming from.

    manga

    Mender will be interesting to watch, that's for sure. You gotta wonder what his deal is. We know Winnie went nuts from stagnation. She chose to stay nuts after but she suffered first. Khavi is the daughter of Two-Spear the crazy, which just about says enough there. Rayek had a whole host of problems too but has also pulled back from the edge. So why is Mender, beloved child of Recognition, raised in the idyllic Sun Village with the super-peaceful/passive Sunfolk and even four age-mates*, giving us all the shivers?

    (*Newstar, Wing, Dart and Windkin.)

    Eyeshigh

    @Lunakat I don't have my copy yet, might be 2 weeks before I have it in my hands, so everything I find to catch up I will take. And I think I am not alone in this! Maybe it isn't a big deal for you, but to me, ah well I am just happy to see more new Wendy art!

    Embala

    manga said: So why is Mender, beloved child of Recognition, raised in the idyllic Sun Village with the super-peaceful/passive Sunfolk and even four age-mates*, giving us all the shivers?
    Thinking of it ...
    http://elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics/index.php?s=HY/HY04&p=20
    he was pictured a little kill-crazy and unbalanced from the beginning. He became more controlled, tho - in the opposite way we might have expected.

    Tam

    RedheadEmber said:
    Tam said: -Ohler and Newstar are officially a couple!

    Thought they'd been that for a while!


    They were pushed together and kinda gardened, but this issue really like...cemented it.

    Mkal

    Her eyes are brown at the end...

    Screen shot 2015-01-30 at 9.32.30 PM

    Mkal

    Thornbrake said: Yes, the idea is that the Palace will move elsewhere before Sunstream sends out the call, so a crowd of new, possibly hostile, elves won't suddenly show up in the Holt.


    Also, it would be best for the Palace to be more central on the continent in which it originally crashed and those four tribes seemed to settle.

    The Go-Backs to the North
    The Sun Folk to the South
    The Wolfriders to the East
    The Gliders to the West

    With the exception of the sea elves, I do not think that the elves that scattered from the Palace were able to cross the oceans. Some elves might have crossed the land bridge that has been mentioned, but I think that most traveled south when the ice age started and, with the exception of Door and the Forevergreen, they did not seem to travel past the desert .

    So where would the Palace go?

    Looking at the first World Map that was created for the Elfquest RPG game, the central location would fall around the mountains close to where Nonna and Adar once lived.

    Somebody said that the humans living on the land that Cutter and the Palace reside are closer to the native tribes of the Americas before Europeans 'discovered' them.

    It would be a safe bet that the tribes of men there have not really spread out like the war-mongering humans across the water have done.

    The Palace could settle near the ancient forest and mountains of the central region on the 1989 map.

    A more central location such as that would be best for those elves still living in shadows.

    RichardPini

    captainvimes said: You know what would be awesome? If, after this final quest story line is over, Wendy and Richard would reveal to us what bits of story or events or twists or hints they had already planned out from the very first issue / original quest...


    Every one of them. ;)

    All right, that may be just the tiniest bit flippant, but in the main it's still true. Major plot developments have been present, simmering, from the start. A perfect example is Shenshen's now-completed arc from Dreamtime to Final Quest. There may be smaller bits of business from early parts of the story, not yet consciously woven in. That's one of the unplanned joys of story conferences. We'll be percolating along, fleshing out this or that event, and then (seemingly) out of nowhere one of us will go "Wait a minute, do you remember from back in the Original Quest when...?" and another little link falls into place. This is not retcon. This is the hallmark of a good storyteller who, even without seeing every detail of future tales, still knows the world and characters well enough to plant seeds that may never come to fruition. But those seeds are still there.

    Llannen

    Thank goodness for living in a big city. After a few phone calls to comic shops (my regular go to had a distributor problem) I tracked one down.

    Two questions: This one may have been asked already......why are some of the elves wearing crystals and others not? At first I thought it might be a hint to who stays and who goes but not thinking that now.

    Second: Is there an online map somewhere that is canon? I want to check it out.

    Not a question and I am pretty darn sure I've seen someone say this before but I really really enjoy seeing Wendy's take on characters that were drawn by someone else first. Not just Teir but the Wave Dancer characters and more. It's just so....Wendy.

    Davrille

    So why is Mender, beloved child of Recognition, raised in the idyllic Sun Village with the super-peaceful/passive Sunfolk and even four age-mates*, giving us all the shivers?

    Because we get to see his potential fall from grace happen.

    Winnowill was presented as a done deal; it's not until Siege that we get what caused her to change. And as that two-page spread hints at, it wasn't one Big Thing at first, but a bunch of Little Things. Like drops of water, one after another.

    We're starting to see the same with Mender. He did heal Tingeh, but not until Tyleet asked him. Leetah wouldn't waited to be asked.

    GreyGirl

    OK, page 18 of this issue has my favouritest Wendy artwork since Book 4 of the original Quest. I LOVE the way Sunstream (although I still think of him as sunny Suntop!) and Cutter are together. And the image of Cutter and Timmain in wolf form echoes that gorgeous pic Wendy did so long ago of a much younger Cutter and Nightrunner.

    Interesting to see how Dart has changed his attitude towards humans... I seem to recall him once upton a time saying very dismissively that human lives were meaningless because they were so short and so it didn't really matter if elves killed them.

    I can see there being tears in the future for poor Strongbow though. I wonder if Moonshade is now cuddled up with that Sun Village elf who so fancied her when the Wolfriders first arrived? I forget his name, but he was the one who got her to wear silks and so on, and then realised that was not who she was. But it looks like it is who she is now...

    Am so looking forward to the next issue!

    Nightsea

    Ok, the art in this one...*droolworthy*. All the elves are looking smexy, the coloring
    is off the charts crazy good. I can see where the crosshatch black and white style is a challenge to mesh with the more digital/cell styles of coloring, but the blending worked out well in some places where I could see it may have been difficult...like the panels with Venka. The full page of Winnowill is...stunning! That one inset of Mender psuedo bust style....makes me wish I could enlarge that image and sew it on a pillow to dream on (well I could...but I'm not really going to...because crazy!)

    I give credit for the accurate prediction on Shenshen's transformation to our intrepid podcaster. The convo with Pike in comic sets it up as a more palatable
    choice...although I wonder how the human/elf dynamics will proceed in terms
    of politics.

    The eyes are always colored well, but the lack of each elf having a set color all the time is slightly disconcerting. And yeah, brown for the "midwife" at the end was a detail I thought made her even less "herself".

    The panel with Cutter examining New Moon's key...no background why?
    Is that to show it more starkly or lift it from context? The softly faded out forest in the other backgrounds works so well to put the elves IN the Holt. As mentioned
    in the podcast for issue 7, I liked the at-home-with-the-Elves-ness in this installment.

    Others made the point that there's been a lack of visible nookie scenes and nudity
    thus far in FQ (and are these people watching too much Game of Thrones?). Um...am I the only one who actually thought the two panels at the end of issue #6 showed Ember & Tier and Cutter & Leetah in the act? Maybe they were just naked cuddling...but the poses and certainly the faces could as easily be interpreted otherwise. I thought those panels were a great example of the structure in FQ
    so far being very consciously making images that parallel nicely or evoke references.

    I've noticed lots of extreme close ups as well. One character will be on one side, and
    in the next panel it will show another character in the same size/proportion...or leading from one group to the next by linking emotions/relationships. I like this and think it is one way the comic book format's subtle influence has grown over the years. We see it in the visual language of movies now and on paper it has impact that
    is underrated IMHO.

    Yay for the father-son dynamic. I hope Timmain didn't transform into a wolf
    just to revisit the cover art for the Wolfrider musical CD with that pose of Cutter
    hugging her under the chin.

    As for Mender's personality...I gotta say I don't see him as dangerously unbalanced.
    His killing is done the same way as his loving...fast, passionate and not with deep
    brooding or second-guessing. I don't think he's not in touch with his feelings...just
    the opposite, I see him as always being "in the now" very well and clear on his goals.
    Defense as offense where needed...I can see his justification completely. Maybe his
    hero worship of our alpha pair is also on par with that wolf-blooded nature and
    the loftier thinking about morals isn't something he spends his time figuring out
    for himself as a pack member. He's got leaders for that and they'll let him know
    if he's out of line. I didn't like the streak of jealousy in Wild Hunt and felt that was
    something contrary to most elfin nature. I attribute that, like many other character's
    quirks, to the authorship not being WaRP directly...but I could be wrong.

    On the note of jealousy, relationships, omnisexuality and all that...
    yay that EQ continues to strive for Elevated Elves.

    But now that I've got a crush on Mender I don't wish to see him paired with
    Dart in a more exclusive bond. I like him free and wild. He's EQ's version of a Legolass/SurferDudeExtrodinare. Yum. ;O

    I did like the My Tyleet moment and so much of the subtext in all the scenes
    is worthy of *squeeeeeeee*.

    All the fur on Freetouch's design...sorta makes me think of fur poking
    out of an outfit...as if to emphasize the 'wolfness' just under the clothes.
    Subtle touches, like the crystals...hints or not...hmm?
    I like the triple cut outs...3 matings? Just a good way to rip stuff?

    Speculation about an "ultimate end" for Winnie...getting hugged into
    the palace collective, getting obliterated....solutions that intrigue me
    but maybe now we have all this shape-swinging going on there's a chance
    she'll be flesh again?


    base

    Thrilled with this issue of the comic and also the podcast.
    --Nightsea

    RedheadEmber

    Okay, there is one bit I don't get/believe namely Windkin's comment about how some of the other Go-Backs might be Venka's sisters. Pretty sure Kahvi didn't have any children between Venka and Teir, as she seem to have been pretty exclusively with Tyldak for the entire time since she left the Wolfriders. And if there'd been another daughter of Kahvi running around with the Go-Backs, why were they so eager to make Venka their chieftess?

    Tam

    He may have meant in a more spiritual, female camaraderie sense. Or perhaps they acknowledge that Kahvi MAY have had other daughters, just unconfirmed, and Venka's the only one they know for sure.

    MeganCash

    I've been looking (and listening to the podcast) for other mentions of this, but so far nobody else has thought it significant that Leetah decides that she won't do anything that will "tear loves and lives apart!"

    How will it be if she refuses Moonshade's request to remove her wolf blood or, even more unthinkable for Leetah, to kill her physical form and release her spirit? Has there been another time when an elf's deepest desire has been denied? Or does this just mean that Strongbow will have to be okay with the choice before Leetah will go through with it? Or will Moonshade turn to Mender who doesn't have any moral qualms? What rifts will come between tribemates or tribes if this is the case?

    Zeina

    I don't know if Leetah flat-out will refuse once it comes down to it, I just think she's having a moment and struggling with this change. That thought about her refusal was hitting at the same moment Shenshen made her request and Leetah was internally freaking out about it, but she went through with it anyway. She's obviously having a hard time, knowing what's happening and seeing it clearly, because as the podcast mentioned, she feels for Strongbow because she sees how much the Wolfriders are sort of defined by their wolf blood.

    I also just don't feel Moonshade will go through with the removal of the wolf blood. I might be wrong, but I think her rejection of being around the Wolfriders is just reactionary and she seems to be seeking refuge in the palace. But I've never seen her as really wanting to BE an immortal. She's never expressed true interest in it....if she removes it, I just get the sense that she would deeply regret it. I can almost see her giving up her body altogether though, which worries me. But i mean, that would mean she'd ask to just have Leetah kill off her body? How much easier would it be to join Strongbow and go back to being a Wolfrider and then get deliberately careless on a hunt to give up her body? Although I can almost see Strongbow doing that to be closer to his life mate. He's not one I can see giving up his Wolf blood at all. And when it comes down to it, I just can't see either of them following through with it either.



    wingthing

    I hope Moonshade gets her wolfblood taken out. I'm sick of Skywise being the lone "freak" who chose to "abandon" the Way. Srsly, if given the option of eternal life in a flawless body (with the option to suicide if you get bored with corporeal form) vs. old age, decay and suffering... why aren't more Wolfriders jumping at the chance? Is it just the corrosive peer pressure? Even Leetah, who used to wish Cutter would ask for immortality is all "But what about her friends and family? I can't sanction a choice others wouldn't approve of."

    Yeah I'm being snarky. And yeah, Leetah was almost certainly being overdramatic. But the fact that everyone's asking "What about Strongbow?" when it's clear Moonshade is going through a big existential crisis? And the fact that Ember's first reaction after being rescued was guilt that she didn't "tough it out" like the Way demands? That's not healthy, man.

    Yay for rocking the boat, Moonshade! The boat needs some serious rocking.

    Zeina



    Well, it literally is a pack mentality for the Wolfriders. Sometimes it is a bit unfortunate.

    manga

    Others made the point that there's been a lack of visible nookie scenes and nudity
    thus far in FQ


    Seriously? I've been thinking there's been too much and mostly in ways that are unnecessary. Isn't anyone else wondering why Freetouch is putting Dart into a torso-less shirt as they go into cold weather?

    RedheadEmber

    wingthing said: Srsly, if given the option of eternal life in a flawless body (with the option to suicide if you get bored with corporeal form) vs. old age, decay and suffering... why aren't more Wolfriders jumping at the chance?


    Because for them life isn't about "old life, decay and suffering". They mostly don't really get to old age, Woodlock, Rainsong and Wing being the notable exceptions. Besides; we don't really know if old age for the Wolfriders equal decay and suffering. !Rainsong

    Talking about elders; am I the only one who have noticed quite a change in attitude towards elders with the Go-Backs from letting Ekuar wander off on his own, explaining it by "we don't get old if we can help it." to showing the uttmost respect towards Aroree, calling her 'honoured elder'.

    manga

    Redhead Ember says: Talking about elders; am I the only one who have noticed quite a change in attitude towards elders with the Go-Backs from letting Ekuar wander off on his own, explaining it by "we don't get old if we can help it." to showing the uttmost respect towards Aroree, calling her 'honoured elder'.


    I dunno if it is a shift. Ekuar was frail and dotty. Aroree is still hale and has all her marbles.

    Llannen

    manga said: Isn't anyone else wondering why Freetouch is putting Dart into a torso-less shirt as they go into cold weather?


    I did. Thought he'd be a little...you know. !Rainsong But maybe that encourages sharing of the furs if you are wearing less and cold....

    manga

    @Llannen: I think the shirt would be impractical in the woods - insects, poison ivy, branches, thorns and etc - but there's a point when I just say "Eh, Wendy" and go on. But though it may encourage Dart to cuddle others, who really wants to cuddle up with an ice - block that size? Assuming hypothermia doesn't get him before he can get back to the den, that is

    lunakat

    manga said: Isn't anyone else wondering why Freetouch is putting Dart into a torso-less shirt as they go into cold weather?


    I seriously hope that thing buttons up somehow for winter.

    Thornbrake

    lunakat said: Mender is so much more interesting now than he ever used to be. I sort of have the hots for him... if you can have the hots for an imaginary character. Confirming that i have questionable taste in men. I guess I respect that he's a cold, blooded killer, and doesn't mince words about it. He's not trying to make it anything other than what it is. Like- if you mess with me, I will kill you. If not, we're cool. It's so straight forward.


    I've always really liked Mender. I think his dual nature of healer and hunter is fascinating. And of all the elves, he's one of the most "human" in that he has flaws like jealousy and violent tendencies. But what's most fascinating is that he knows it and is OK with it. He doesn't let those things bother him, or make him feel like he's lesser because of them. He owns who he is.

    When he says that he's not as "good" as Cutter or Leetah or Dart, I don't get the sense that he's putting himself down -- just that he knows that he doesn't always operate from that idealized, high place that some of the other elves do. Does that make sense?

    lunakat said: I also like how he didn't lose his cool at any point when the humans were chasing the elves. He was the flat opposite of Tier. That's kind of hot. Possibly sociopathic- but also hot. I can see where Yun is coming from.

    Thornbrake

    Llannen said: Is there an online map somewhere that is canon? I want to check it out.


    Map of Abode

    wingthing

    lunakat said:
    manga said: Isn't anyone else wondering why Freetouch is putting Dart into a torso-less shirt as they go into cold weather?

    I seriously hope that thing buttons up somehow for winter.


    Do any of the boys ever button up for winter? Strongbow, Cutter, Treestump - they've always run around flashing their pecs no matter the season.

    Llannen

    @Thornbrake-your other elf name could be Scroll!! Thank you.... ^:)^ =D> ^:)^

    Eyeshigh

    I know this map, but I have alway wondered why it isn't complete....
    I din't see where the "old" holt is. Or the Forbidden Cove, Blue Mountain, Thorny Holt Mountain......
    I think Sarazen is Sorrow's End....
    Where is the Palace?
    I see Wavedance, but are they really that close??

    I always guessed a bit, thinking it was the "human" view of the world.

    Tam

    Yeah, that map doesn't work for me. I use it for my RPG, but that's it...I get lost if I try to think of it for the comics. Where's the original holt? Then they end up at Sorrow's End, which I assume is Sarazen. Then Cutter and Skywise travel to the Forbidden Grove, which is way south...then they somehow get to Blue Mountain, which is where, and then the Frozen Mountains, but don't pass through the desert again?

    RedheadEmber

    wingthing said: Do any of the boys ever button up for winter? Strongbow, Cutter, Treestump - they've always run around flashing their pecs no matter the season.


    Well, if SaTS is anything to go by, then elves don't really feel the cold the same way humans do. Remember how they had those problems with Shuna because she couldn't get warm out in the Holt, and felt weird inside the Palace?

    Besides; maybe Freetouch is making cloakes to them as well.

    BTW: Has Tyleet completely dropped the tanning?

    Stefan

    Yea, the names on the map are confusing. I guess it's based a bit furter in time than the FQ itself. And would those names be a mix of how humans named them (influenced by the elves). Or perhaps the map's made by human-shaped elves.

    Eyeshigh

    I thought the forbiden grove was north... Cutter and Skywise travelled from Sorrow's End (Sarazen)back to their old holt, passed it to Nonna and Adar, to Olbar's tribe and to the Blue Mountain, which was near the great river on the middle continent?... and the Palace is in the Frozen Mountains.

    But it is wierd to see an officail map, without the most important places!!

    Zinegirl

    I love the new outfits Freetouch made :D

    Stormcatcher

    Check out this thread: elfquest.com/forums/discussion/313/i-need-an-official-map-of-the-elfquest-world

    PCoquelin once posted the map from the RPG which cannot have been totally unofficial:

    lunakat

    Thornbrake said: I've always really liked Mender. I think his dual nature of healer and hunter is fascinating. And of all the elves, he's one of the most "human" in that he has flaws like jealousy and violent tendencies.

    Let's be honest. ALL of the elves have these tendencies... except the SunFolk who are culturally exempt from violence. The whole idea that elves don't feel these emotions or have these tendencies is completely contradictory- because they very clearly and explicitly do in the story.

    Let's talk jealousy. The Gliders were jealous when the Wolfriders brought their children into the mountain- the narration says so. Rayek was jealous of Cutter. Mender was jealous of Tier. Sunstream was jealous of his sister's relationship with his father. Shen Shen was jealous of Leetah's ability to shine brighter than her. Strongbow is currently jealous of the Palace.

    And every single group of elves (except the SunFolk) have been violent. The Wolfriders are inherently violent- they kill for a living. The reason the Gliders enslaved the Wolfriders was to punish them for their violence. But the Gliders were violent in enslaving the Wolfriders. The GoBacks were violent every single day. They loved being violent. Rayek was violent when he got angry- it was his 'go to' response to rage. Violence. Cutter has solved many a problem with sheer violence. The SunFolk ritualized their violence and suppressed it- until Dart taught them how to fight. Door was a violent elf. So was Windkin. Kahvi was violent. Violence was her bread and butter. Surge used the threat of violence all the time to try to control his son and his people.

    This whole idea that elves don't experience all the same emotions that we do is bunk. I mean- we can say it, and the creators can say it if they want- but they already wrote a story that covers the gamut of human emotions and reactions in these characters- so to say it completely contradicts the story being told.

    What's different isn't whether the characters feel these emotions. What's different is their cultural norms and how they are expected to handle these emotions. If they didn't feel them- there would be no point. The point is, they feel these things- but they react differently. And so could we, if we chose to.

    lunakat

    Thornbrake said: When he says that he's not as "good" as Cutter or Leetah or Dart, I don't get the sense that he's putting himself down -- just that he knows that he doesn't always operate from that idealized, high place that some of the other elves do. Does that make sense?


    Mender knows he doesn't have the same moral values as Cutter or Leetah or Dart- and he doesn't care. I think he means "I'm not as morally 'good'"- but he also doesn't seem to be particularly bothered by that or even want to be.

    travelbug

    @Eyeshigh
    I have that map in The Wolfriders Guide, and on it is Blue Mountain marked by the river that goes into the letters of Iceholt.
    Sarazen is Sorrows End, my map shows "Sarazen (Sorrows End)"

    I think Father Tree holt would be north of Sarazen, close to the river.
    Doesnt Cutter and Skywise travel along a river towards Blue Mountain?

    lunakat

    They do!

    elf_queen_vik

    I went ahead and have it all on the digital app so i am now all caught up. I really feel for the elves while going to the stars is an ideal fantasy some think that maybe its not best. in some ways it may not be, its seems like the way the palace is changing them may lead to less births. I also feel for moonshade it is hinted that she may go ahead and get her wolf blood removed. As I said before I still cant help but think of New Blood #4 Ahnshen was right all the time? (i wonder if he is in the palace and how he would react to seeing her like that?) Im worried that mender is going to go to a darker side of thinks (but his face cheeking out Dart lol) Im still getting used to Teir being Windkins son and Shenshens change.

    p.s i want Ember and Teir to fulfill their recognition so bad. (I wonder if that will happen at all now though it seems Leetah and Mender was worried about that too.)
    I love seeing Arroree and Venka again they are both so beautiful.

    elf_queen_vik

    also now that i am all caught up i cant get enough! i need more all elfquest all the time.

    travelbug

    Anshen is probably in the palace, and looking at Moonshade all the time ;)

    RedheadEmber

    He might've made the dress she's wearing.

    Thornbrake

    lunakat said: This whole idea that elves don't experience all the same emotions that we do is bunk. I mean- we can say it, and the creators can say it if they want- but they already wrote a story that covers the gamut of human emotions and reactions in these characters- so to say it completely contradicts the story being told.

    What's different isn't whether the characters feel these emotions. What's different is their cultural norms and how they are expected to handle these emotions. If they didn't feel them- there would be no point. The point is, they feel these things- but they react differently. And so could we, if we chose to.


    Yes, you're right to clarify this, of course. I should have been more specific and said that Mender acts on his emotions like jealousy and his violent tendencies more like a human than most other elves. Dewshine's response to Scouter and Tyleet's Recognition is the more typically "elfy" response than was Rayek's to Cutter and Leetah's or Mender's to Ember's attraction to Teir.

    Cutter is violent -- but as Dart points out he doesn't enjoy it the way Kahvi (a sometime's villain) does and he's not wanton about it. Leetah can bust hearts but she doesn't do it as cavalierly as Winnowill or...Mender. And I think that's the main point. Mender DOES act differently than most other elves, and his behavior in some instances is more human than the general elfin ideal, which is a characteristic of many of the villains in EQ).

    Eyeshigh

    @Travelbug. Thank you, I had the same idea. Maybe it is time for a "new" map?

    elf_queen_vik

    travelbug said: Anshen is probably in the palace, and looking at Moonshade all the time


    Omg yes. Woo Team Anshen! (I feel like we are spawning fan fic...OH what if they recignized!!!)

    Thornbrake

    @Llannan, @Tam, @Stefan, @travelbug @Eyeshigh, and @Stormcatcher - I just created another thread with more information about the maps and different versions with different info.

    Leanan

    I really love the design of Venka's shield. Snow and sun combined... wonderful to see her and Aroree again!

    I'm liking Freetouch a lot. (Not a surprise to anyone who knows me!)

    Teir and Ember now have the same teal color in their clothes... and matching swords too... as the saying goes, old couples start to resemble each other. :D

    Filcher! Gotta love that wolf. =))

    ShenShen! I never saw that coming! The subtle hints were once again completely wasted on me!

    Oh and I loved Carol Lyon's art in the extra pages. I don't recall reading this quote before (concerning Skywise): "If Timmain herself chooses to be his wolf-friend, who are we to say he is no longer a wolfrider?". Is it from a previous story, or something new?

    lunakat

    Someone mentioned in another thread "Skywise going wonkers." I wonder if that whole experience is the reason Leetah is so freaked out about removing Moonshade's wolfblood?

    Eyeshigh

    I did.... but I hadn't thought of that being the reason Leetah is reluctant to remove the wolfblood, by/in/out any of the Wolfriders.
    Even Cutter's....?

    MultiFacets

    Yeah, especially since it seemed to make it somewhat hard for Cutter and Skywise to reconcile after the Palace returned, and Skywise regretted his choice for a while.

    lunakat

    Leetah's lack of anything more than the briefest of hesitation before removing Skywise's wolf blood always made me suspect her motives. Obviously she had wanted, for years, to do that for Cutter- but when he finally asked, she didn't jump at chance- she refused because he was asking under duress. What conditions was Skywise asking under? If that wasn't duress then I don't know what is.

    I personally think her motives were not altruistic, but personal. I think she thought that Cutter was dead- and that she was facing an eternity without him.... And that Skywise was the best option she had for keeping someone around who would remember Cutter as she did and share her grief. I think she did it so she wouldn't be alone- and I think she must have regretted it later.

    Eyeshigh

    I have to agree with you. I have always wondered why she didn't wait for a few days or weeks... if they went on a search for their lost kin, they could have waited untill it was clear it would take longer then a Wolfriders' lifetime, right? Okay, they knew they had to get controle over the Palace, but they hadn't even planned on how to do that...

    Another thing might be (thought of this while writing) she feel like she is following Winnowill's path and she doesn't want to end up like her!

    Zeina

    I think Leetah was reacting from an emotional place as well. It's true that her decision was more personal, definitely. I don't know if I'd go so far as her being calculating about keeping Skywise around as backup...that's way calculating. She was just reacting, and not in a cool level-headed O Wise One way which is very default Leetah. Screaming her bloody head off when she realizes how much time had passed and then reaching out to Rayek in mid-flight and growling ("He...was...my..soul..." - I have always LOVED that btw) and HURTING him so he dropped her...all out of character for the very poised Leetah. Healing a human and almost being kept captive...a lot happened to her.

    And then telling Skywise his faith will have to carry them both. She thought she had lost her life mate and definitely wasn't thinking straight. I think she and Skywise were both just really freaked out and sort of clung to each other during that time. They were more equals emotionally at that point. It's actually one of my favorite exchanges because it knocked Leetah off the pedestal and somehow made her more real. She was under extreme duress. And also thinking of Windkin, thinking of whatever survivors were still there possibly. Girl was straight up traumatized. Cut her some slack.

    manga

    I always took her quick decision as giving in because she knew Skywise had been leaning that way already. Remember when Cutter said "All this world's creatures walk that path, Blackhair?" And Skywise thinks "Must we?" This was not a complete turn-around for him. He had been working up to asking anyway.

    Eyeshigh

    So..... any one knows what this picture is yet......?



    Cause if it hasn't been mentioned yet, I think I know....



    Guess the ones who have the copy already know, yes?
    I don't have it, but when I saw Sonny's tease I started thinking. And today I saw the first image again and it hit me! This is where Freetouch jumps at Mender after she dressed Dart in his new outfit!
    Like I said I don't have the copy yet, so I can't put that image here..

    Stefan

    Yup, i mentioned it in my little review, and it is indeed the scene where F-touch jumps onto Mender.. With Dart finishes dressing.

    Elwing

    Finally got it! Had to shelter under a rock for a week to avoid spoilers! Turns out they had it all the time, just put it in the wrong bin.
    Now, thank goodness, I really liked this one. it seems like things are finally starting to move, and also lots of people I like to see, like Venka, her Go-Backs, Two-Edge and even a Rayek and Winnowill sighting! It seems the Go-Backs share my opinion of the Wavedancers. Good.
    Also, I really liked the art in this issue. I've had some problems with the earlier ones, I think that colored outline gimmick is something to use in moderation. Lots of nice line-work in this issue, beautiful.
    I like that Jane Goodall comparison for Shen-Shen. I can't wait to see how her mission turns out.

    Thornbrake

    image

    Now THIS is a dangerous pair. I love this panel. Makes me want to write a fanfic about these two trigger happy rogues. Plus their outfits are super cool, especially Sust's! So Wolfridery!

    Elwing

    Maniacs, both of them.



    I also really liked Venka's new outfit. Just the right cultural mix, and practical to boot. That sword seems a little over the top, and I wonder why she dreamed of it?

    manga

    What I wonder is what Dart was objecting to in the above conversation. Was he concerned that the human children would feel that all humans were hated? Or, given that the Djunsmen did far more to them than to the elves (not, admittedly, for lack of trying), does he just not want kids infected with vengeance and hate?

    lunakat

    Maybe he just felt, and rightly so, that it was inappropriate to joke about how much you want to rip the guts out of human beings within earshot of human children who had been traumatized by violence... I mean, that's inappropriate to say around most children, but these kids were specifically human (of the group the elves were talking about killing), had just witnessed violence, had lost their homes and parents and were probably scared. So- the right thing to do is to comfort them, not ensure PTSD.

    Dart was exercising common sense and compassion- in his grumpy way. Sust was being a Go Back. Mender- didn't seem to care either way. He was just doing his cold blooded duty with good humor and a smile on is face, I guess.

    Thornbrake

    @Eyeshigh and @Stefan, great eye!!

    image

    manga

    Luna, I think you combined both my ideas there. Which works just as well. Fwiw, it's not that I didn't agree with his objection, I was just wondering about its nature.

    lunakat

    I think you are right, Manga! Yes, I see where you were coming from.

    What do you think of the nature of his objection, then? What would you guess was his motivation?

    RedheadEmber

    manga said: I always took her quick decision as giving in because she knew Skywise had been leaning that way already. Remember when Cutter said "All this world's creatures walk that path, Blackhair?" And Skywise thinks "Must we?" This was not a complete turn-around for him. He had been working up to asking anyway.


    I think I do when I think about it, though I'm not sure exactly when it happened.
    Another scene you post made me think of is his reaction after Starjumper dies. The "some parts of death I can look at, others I cannot" comment.

    lunakat

    Yeah... I agree with that. He's clearly been thinking about it. But not a lot of time has passed, at that point, since Windkin was kidnapped or since Starjumper died. It's simply- bam, bam, bam. He hasn't been thinking about it for long. He can't have been. And he clearly doesn't understand all the implications of what he's asking for. Leetah pretty much tells him that- after the fact- when she's all "that may be all the change you notice... at first." Overall- this was a major, life-changing choice that got decided on the spur of the moment. Not usually the best thing.

    I just don't think Leetah is as self aware as we think- She's sort of winging it half the time, and hindsight is always 20-20.

    manga

    Lunakat said: I just don't think Leetah is as self aware as we think- She's sort of winging it half the time, and hindsight is always 20-20.

    I don't think she's self-aware at all. Especially not in book one and not later, when she tries to convince Rayek by telling him Cutter will kill him. No. Leetah is very compassionate but she's not a mental heavy lifter.

    lunakat

    I tend to agree with you. Leetah isn't stupid- nor is Cutter... But neither one of them is as intelligent as their kid. i think he takes after his grandfather (on his mom's side) and his grandmother (on his father's side).

    manga said: she tries to convince Rayek by telling him Cutter will kill him.

    The only person who came up with any sound argument to sway Rayek was Skywise. He had a point. Rayek was immortal and could have taken all the time he wanted in the world to accomplish that task... and to do it right. Plus he appealed to his vanity by saying he could be a great teacher. It just wasn't effective. But at least it was a different approach than "Because I said no." Rayek just had too much disdain for the Wolfriders to listen. I wonder how he would have reacted if Savah had said the same thing.

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